Success teaching younger divers????

[pennypue]

Wow, this thread has some amazing things in it. Some which I learned the hard way. My 13, almost 14 year old daughter was just certified down in Mexico. I prearranged this, knew who her primary instructor would be and I was present at all times. She did fantastic. She is incredibly mature for her age.

But there is one skill that needs to be drilled into the kids heads. QUESTION AUTHORITY. And I don't mean when they want to push safety limits. The exact opposite, when they think their limits are being pushed. That's a tough call for ANY child to make to their parent, heck it's tough for many adults. My daughter was buddied with the instructor on an open water dive, as she should have been. I almost pulled the dive because I did not like how he was handling her. But I did not want to interfere. I had my eye on her the whole time, and she was doing great. There was a pretty good current we were in on our second dive of the day. This was not one of the instructors I was familiar with previously. He was certified and qualified to handle her, she believed it, I believed it. It was her first day on a boat dive, and her fourth open water. What I saw was a young lady that handled her skill sets with ease. Flooded mask, mask removal, no problems. Long story, but she was unhappy with the current, heck uncomfortable. She completed the dive, but was upset AFTERWARDS.

We had some discussions and I am happy to say, Lesson learned. She will now call her own dives. The next day she called a fresh water dive in a cenote, not because of the caverns, but because of the wetsuit!! She was not comfortable in it. She waited above (part of the time still below ground, she loved the bats) while I completed my dives. THAT'S maturity.

The little girl in that drowned waiting for her dad........not mature enough. A child needs to be able to say NO.

 

[underwater daphne]

There is a difference between doing it right or wrong, and reacting to a potentially dangerous situation. A young kid can be a great diver, good bouyancy, etc. But when things go sour, how are they going to respond?

In OW you are told to stop, breath, think, then act. From my experiences in life, a kid is more likely to panic.

As an extreme example, my daughter is learning how to ride a bike. She is doing okay, she knows how to pedal, steer, and stop the bike. The other day she was on the sidewalk with a slight decline, as she picked up speed she removed her feet from the pedals, which are also her brakes, and started to scream. Not a rational decision. A simple 'mechanism', a little bit of speed, that went sour. Everything she had learned was forgotten in a moment of panic. Granted, there is a big difference between 3 and 12 yrs, I don't think a 12 yrs old would panic in the same situation as my daughter. Likewise, there is a difference between 12 and 20, and for some people, you can compare 20 to 30 or even older.

Bill

i kinda agree, but how do you know which is the right age?
take the driving example, ppl in switzerland are allowed to drink at sixteen but drive/vote at 18. in the states you can drive (which as mentioned can be very dangerous and involves being responsible!) at 15/16 and drink/vote at 21.
so when are you responsible enough to do these things? there is no global answer just as to diving. it's probably wrong to generalize and say all kids will panic more easily than adults, 15 year olds are more mature than 12 year olds (don't forget puberty!), kids lack life experience and adults automatically have life experience due to age.

 

[CuriousMe]

i kinda agree, but how do you know which is the right age?
take the driving example, ppl in switzerland are allowed to drink at sixteen but drive/vote at 18. in the states you can drive (which as mentioned can be very dangerous and involves being responsible!) at 15/16 and drink/vote at 21.
so when are you responsible enough to do these things? there is no global answer just as to diving. it's probably wrong to generalize and say all kids will panic more easily than adults, 15 year olds are more mature than 12 year olds (don't forget puberty!), kids lack life experience and adults automatically have life experience due to age.

There obviously isn't one age that everyone's magically ready.....heck, I've met 40+ year olds that were obviously not mature enough to dive or drive for that matter. But there does need to be a limit made somewhere....in the states each state determines the bottom age kids can apply for a learners permit. In more populated areas (New York metro area for example) that age tends to be higher than in more rural areas (SoutWest Georgia for example) after the limit is made for the population, it's then the parents job to assess the kid's readiness for the situation.

I just couldn't see giving a kid younger than 15 or 16 the responsability of being someone's buddy.

Peace,
Cathie

 

[underwater daphne]

but that's just it. i hope they will never allow ppl below 18 to drive a car in switzerland and i think 15/16 is way too young, but that doesn't mean i know what's right.

 

[CuriousMe]

but that's just it. i hope they will never allow ppl below 18 to drive a car in switzerland and i think 15/16 is way too young, but that doesn't mean i know what's right.

Ok....we're kind of off topic here.....but driving with a learner's permit means driving with your parrent or an instructor in the car....also....in rural areas of the country (which is realistically where a 15 year old would be driving) the driving is very easy. We're talking small towns separated by miles and miles of open space before getting to the next small town.

The point of the driving analogy though is that even if it were legal.....would you let a 11 or 12 year old have that kind of responsability even if it were legal.....we obviously know where underwater daphne stands on that topic

 

[underwater daphne]

i know, but that's the point, everyone will feel differently on this and there is NO OBVIOUS answer. i think driving in a small country like switzerland where the legal age for drinking is quite low, roads are windy and small, no speed limit on the highway of our neighbouring country etc more dangerous than letting a responsible mature 12 year old dive with her/his dad. but it really depends on the parent, the child, the instructor, the wheres and the circumstances. letting ur kid do the class doesn't mean you'll dive with your kid in a current, doesn't mean your kid can go diving in whatever mood the 2 of you are in, etc. generalizing will not give you an answer. you can always say no after the course, but you'll have the chance to say yes and do some easy, shallow, short, etc dives.
lol, now i'm confusing you right

 

[CuriousMe]

i know, but that's the point, everyone will feel differently on this and there is NO OBVIOUS answer. i think driving in a small country like switzerland where the legal age for drinking is quite low, roads are windy and small, no speed limit on the highway of our neighbouring country etc more dangerous than letting a responsible mature 12 year old dive with her/his dad. but it really depends on the parent, the child, the instructor, the wheres and the circumstances. letting ur kid do the class doesn't mean you'll dive with your kid in a current, doesn't mean your kid can go diving in whatever mood the 2 of you are in, etc. generalizing will not give you an answer. you can always say no after the course, but you'll have the chance to say yes and do some easy, shallow, short, etc dives.
lol, now i'm confusing you right

No, you're not confusing me.....I'm far to confused naturally to need help

But I might not have stated my point well.....I'm not saying the it's dangerous for a child of 12 to dive....I'm saying it's not fair to place the responsability of being a buddy on them. I've yet to meet a 12 year old that has the life experience to handle things if everything went sideways. Now, of course I haven't met Wydoin's daughter.....but I just can't imagine wanting to put a kid in that kind of situation. I support giving them a some more time to grow up a bit more.

I also agree with what pennypue said....I see to many adults turn their brains off before stepping on a dive boat....they just blindly trust anything the Divemaster (they met an hour ago) and willing place their life in the DM's hands. They don't think for themselves to keep themselves safe. That's going to be even more so for a child.

In general, I just don't think kids have the skills to make judgement calls....so it's unfair to put them in a possible life and death situation where they might need to.

Peace,
Cathie

 

[underwater daphne]

a dan link on the matter:
https://www.daneurope.org/eng/faq19.htm

 

[Lightning Fish]

My daughter was buddied with the instructor on an open water dive, as she should have been.

Why should she have been buddied with the instructor? When I took my OW and AOW my buddy was always another student, never the instructor.

Bill.

 

[pennypue]

Why should she have been buddied with the instructor? When I took my OW and AOW my buddy was always another student, never the instructor.

Bill.

Well, several reasons. One is that I too am a new diver. It was just my 8th dive in open water. As a child of 13, and THE ONLY student on the dive, it was appropriate. Did you do OW and AOW as a child, or an adult?