Suunto Vytec

[tkdgodess]

I bought the viper 2 today. I decided against the vytec because I decided that AI isn't a priority for me. The Viper 2 has nearly all the same features as the vytec ds, except the vytec doesn't have a compass. (now I really can't get lost, having one on my console too....) and the viper does only 2 gases, but I can't see myself using more than 2 at this point in my diving endeavors.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the matrix display on my viper...I'm sure I can get used to it.

Thanks for this thread!

 

[ianw2]

tkgodess:

If you have the Viper2 on your console as well as a compass, you may have a problem.

As I have ementioned many times before, there is no such thing as a "digital" compass. It is a digital readout for a miniature compass. It still uses a magnetic needle to align itslef to the earth's magnetic field as every compass eve built for the past 3 thousand years.

The two magnetized needles, one from the digital compaas and one from the "analogue" compass, will be attracted to each other rather than swing in the earth's magentic field.

You can see what happens when you put two normal compasses together. The same thing will likely happen with the Viper2 in the same console as the compass. The result: you're really going to get lost!

Other's who have ended up with a console mounted computer equiped with a digital compass have found that they end up with a regular compass on a retractor away from their computer.

With any luck, this generation of computers will be the last one we see with this useless, and potentially dangerous, device embeded.

 

[tkdgodess]

I wear my computer wrist mount. Do you think having the digital compass in the viper on my wrist AND leaving the compass on my console will cause a problem? Console = analogue: SPG, Depth Gauge & Compass.

 

[NudeDiver]

tkgodess:As I have ementioned many times before, there is no such thing as a "digital" compass. It is a digital readout for a miniature compass. It still uses a magnetic needle to align itslef to the earth's magnetic field as every compass eve built for the past 3 thousand years.

I think might want to consider expanding your mind with respect to what a compass is. Certainly a GPS unit is a kind of compass - and it is completely digital and doesn't use a magnetic needle.

The night sky can also be regarded as a kind of compass. You can look at it, and based on what you see, determine which way is north. It can even be used as a clock.

The day sky can be used in a similar fashion, using the position of the sun. Also usable as a clock.

Just food for thought.

 

[ianw2]

Nude, I am a Professional Land Surveyor in California, LS 7010. I use compasses almost daily. I own and use GPS equipment of both survey grade and consumer grade. I have made more star shots than I care to remember.

The question at hand is about compasses, not GPS receivers or stellar navigation. The so-called digital compasses, such as the one in the Cobra2, are actually digital sensors and displays of very tiny magnetic needles in very tiny compasses.

If the post were about using GPS receivers to determine headings or talking about celestial navigation, you might actually have a valid point.

Incidentally, the GPS receivers in use today provide a heading by comparing the location of the receiver a few seconds ago with the one generated now. The differential is what is use to display the heading. An example of one such device is the Brunton GPS Compass. All five of my hand-held GPS receivers have a “compass” display screen, as well. However, no one with real experience or knowledge of compasses or GPS equipment would ever refer to the receiver as being “a compass”.

The signals from the either the American NavStar system or the Russian GLONASS or the proposed EU Galileo are capable of penetrating more than a thin layer of water. Even when the proposed GPS Satellites with the L5 signal have filled enough of the orbits to be of significant use, the signals will still not penetrate any significant layer of water so as to be useful for anything below a foot or two of water.

The star field above our head is exactly that. It is not a compass. It is a natural phenomenon and not a mechanical device.

The first compasses were likely a magnetized piece of metal or stone that floated on a leaf or bit of wood. The magnetic bar aligned itself in the magnetic field. Compasses are much more sophisticated, today. However, a compass, by definition, is still a magnetic bar allowed to float freely to align itself with the earth’s magnetic field. The magnetic strength of the needle is significantly higher than that of the earth’s magnetic field. When two magnets are placed near each other and allowed to rotate freely, they will align with each other and not the earth’s magnetic field. This is the reason that ships compasses, and those used in airplanes, etc. are shielded from other magnetic attractions.

Since tkgodess indicated that she would be using her Cobra2 in a console with a traditional, “non-digital” compass. Since the two needles may very well be attracted to each other, the chance of errors increases dramatically. Those people I have known who have used these digital compasses in dive computers often end up with another analogue compass on a retractor to alleviate this problem. tkgodess joked that, with the two compasses in the same console, she “…really can’t get lost…” In fact, the opposite is more likely to be true since the readings would likely be false.

Also, from professional experience with a number of “digital” compasses, the tilt angle of the housing is much more sensitive than that of a larger “non-digital” compass. I have also experience significant errors in the readings taken with the digital compasses; one of the most critical being a common 180º flip of the actual heading.

So, as a Professional Land Surveyor with more than 40 years experience in using compasses and observing the stars and fifteen years experience with GPS receivers, navigation and surveying, I’ll stand by my original comments and warnings.

 

[tkdgodess]

First I posted: I hope someone can give a fair answer because I'm trying to decide between the D9 (approx retail..$1500 w/trans) the Vytec (approx retail $800 no trans) and the Cobra 2 (approx retail$950). I'm thinking NOT the cobra2 because I prefer to have analogue gauges and the computer on my wrist, but otherwise I like the features of the cobra 2...

Then I posted

I bought the viper 2 today. I decided against the vytec because I decided that AI isn't a priority for me. The Viper 2 has nearly all the same features as the vytec ds, except the vytec doesn't have a compass. (now I really can't get lost, having one on my console too....)QUOTE]


I was specific. I am NOT using an AI computer. I bought the Vyper2, which is not AI, (and IS different from the Cobra2 fyi) and has the choice of wrist or console mount. I am wearing it on my wrist, and will still have my analogue gauges in my console. I didn't think I joked about having TWO Compasses in the same console.

But thanks for the Navigational Tool lecture....

 

[NudeDiver]

So, as a Professional Land Surveyor with more than 40 years experience in using compasses and observing the stars and fifteen years experience with GPS receivers, navigation and surveying, I’ll stand by my original comments and warnings.

I think might not want to consider expanding your mind with respect to what a compass is.....oh well.

 

[Scared Silly]

... a few things I want for the future (no gauge mode, no gas switching, only goes to 50% O2 etc).

I use a Vytec DS, I do not like digital compasses, I do not like matrix displays, I do like large displays, and easy to use interfaces. I bought a Vytec over the Vyper cause of its technical features - 50% algorithm, deep stops, multiple gasses. The Vyper2 has these as well but I do not like the digital compass joke and matrix display.

 

[ianw2]

I think might not want to consider expanding your mind with respect to what a compass is.....oh well.

You might want to consider that you are wrong and not willing to learn something from someone with much more experience and knowledge than you.

GPS equipment is not considered as a "compass" by anyone who uses it.

The cellestial sphere is not considered a compass by anyone who uses it.

They ARE methods of navigation ond postional fixing, but they are not compasses.

You can cut paper with a knifeor a pair of scissors or an axe, but no one would ever class axes and scissors as "kinds of knives".

 

[NudeDiver]

blah blah blah

If a compass is in the forest, and there is no one there to see it, is it still pointing north?