Teach Different. Dive Different.

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In teaching there is the "Rule of Primacy" and it essentially states that the first way you learn something will almost always be your fallback.

That's not what the rule of primacy says at all. What it says is that what someone learns first they recall most easily. That's why in a teaching situation you deliver the most important information first, which in the case of mask clearing *certainly* has to be to exhale through the nose. If you tell them that anything else is more important during mask clearing than exhaling through the nose then that's probably what they'll remember best.

That's the rule of primacy.

I'm split on this issue, to be honest. The shallow pool we start in is very shallow so it forces me to introduce the mod-1 skills in a fin pivot. Almost nobody has trouble with that but if a student has lot of trouble with the mask skill I will continue to drill it on the bottom with them until they have the breathing correct. This just reduces the task loading down to one thing (exhale through the nose), which is the most important thing for them to master first. After that I'll raise the bar until they master it while swimming. In cases where they don't have trouble with it then they do it in the fin pivot the first couple of times and then never go to the bottom for it again.

To me it's about the end result. I don't generally start with demanding the end result first unless the student can do it that way without taking intermediate steps to break down the skill.

So that leaves me split. I highly value being able to do the skills "while diving" but I see the need with some students to break down skills into smaller steps and in some cases to go right to zero and take it one baby-step at a time.

So when I hear these kinds of discussions on the internet I sometimes wonder how some instructors screen their students. The OP started out by suggesting that the fin-pivot is a useless skill and yet I must start every OW course in a fin-pivot. So what do they do? Descend in water too deep to stand up in and then BAM! right into a perfect horizontal hover with a student who has never been under water before and start mask clearing?

Frankly, I don't believe it.

I have the odd student who could do that but unless I screened them out of the intro dives to only select the ones with high-potential there is no way I could adopt that as "the way" to do it. With a group of students having mixed potential this has to be the end result, not the starting point and students have to reach that end result via different ways. The way I teach, I give the student what they need in order to learn and I don't force them to learn the way I've decided to teach. That's what I find very odd about all the chest thumping on the internet about forcing students to hover right out of the gate. Some can. Some can't. So what do you do with the ones who can't? Wash them out? Refuse to train them? Put them under pressure to learn how you feel like teaching? Because chest thumping alone simply does not make a high-potential student out of everyone.

But now we're really hijacking the thread.

What I'm still curious about are the NASE standards for OW. I'm curious where they set the bar because I think there is value in raising expectations. But like Quero, all I can see from the initial blurb is what they *don't* do. I would be very interested in what they *do* do.

R..
 
I've looked at NASE at different times and have downloaded various documents to learn more. I even once looked at what a crossover would involve taking my location into consideration. Here's a NASE document that is absent of all the posturing: NASE Worldwide Standards Summary
 
Interesting -- I was looking at the class standards, and encountered this:

Remove, clear and resume breathing from a regulator that has fallen behind the shoulder
I found this interesting, because the only way I've seen a regulator fall behind someone's shoulder is if they AREN'T horizontal.​
 
Quero - You are absolutely right, it is not what others don't do but what we do. Negatives detract from message. The reference was implied to draw attention to a specific skill, not to say that any other skill is wrong.

---------- Post Merged at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 12:02 PM ----------

Yep, kinda hard to a happen unless your on the surface or ascending using line.
 
SeaCobra -- I totally agree with you. I see no problem with the initial teaching of the basic skills (and to me that is breathing underwater, removing/replacing a regulator, flooding/clearing a mask and sharing air) while the student is flat on the bottom. In fact, that is how I do it (therefore it MUST be right! :) ). If the student gets into the "fin pivot" position (i.e., body off the bottom with fin tips on the bottom), great -- likewise if the student is off the bottom, neutral in the water column, great. BUT, I just let the student pick the position AS LONG AS they are flat and horizontal.

Once the students get the basic skills then they can add being in the water column. That is the end point, not the starting point.

Quero -- thanks for the link. In reading the material, does it really sound like this is all that different from the standards of other agencies?
 
Quero -- thanks for the link. In reading the material, does it really sound like this is all that different from the standards of other agencies?
There are some differences in the details. One is the 100-minute minimum bottom time requirement for certification; another is that the OW cert can be achieved with only 3 open water dives (students have to enter and exit the water at least three times with a minimum SI of 10 minutes), and there are others yet. But I chose the word "details" purposely because at the end of the day the old saw "it's the instructor, not the agency" is pretty much true. In other words, in response to your question, Peter, if I were instantly granted a NASE instructorship right now, I don't think I'd have to alter the way I currently teach in order to comply with the standards as summarized in the document.
 
After that I'll raise the bar until they master it while swimming.
Some people want to raise the bar. Others want to lower it. I just start out with a neutral bar as the very first skill to master once on Scuba. We work from the top down and not the bottom up. Once they have acclimated to being neutral with their hands folded, I start introducing skills. So, the first and really most important skill they learn on Scuba is to STAY OFF THE FREAKIN' BOTTOM. That's primacy in my book and it's easy to do. In addition is saves me time trying to convince them that on the bottom is not a good place to be.

Unfortunately, if you start with them on the bottom, then they are shown that the bottom is "OK" from the get go. Hard to change that paradigm once the rule of primacy sets in. Again, I see it all the time here on my reefs. People just don't have a problem with laying, kneeling or standing on the bottom. That it's a reef doesn't seem to phase them in the least. Where did they learn this? It was probably the very first thing their instructor had them do. I have found that accepting the bottom as a viable spot to kneel is almost as hard a habit to break as sculling with their hands. No, you don't have to believe it but that won't stop me from teaching this way.
 
Since NASE is the little known 'new kid on the block,' and certification is available from several much better known and established agencies, I think they have to aggressively market their perceived advantages against the established agencies.

Prospective divers won't extensively review online training materials at agency web sites, and most will gravitate toward established well-known agencies over a no-name.

Burger King marketed the Whopper against the McDonald's Big Mac, Pepsi marketed against Coke, and Microsoft advertises Bing against Google. In each case, the company coming later had to market aggressively against the established competitor.

If you aren't tried and true, you'd better be new and better, and make it obvious.
 
does it really sound like this is all that different from the standards of other agencies?
For me the difference is in the concept of "Competency" over "Mastery". Most instructors make their students master discreet skills sequentially. They do it in the pool and then you see them repeating the skills in the OW dives and it's common for their students to be kneeling in a circle around them. Quite often these students come away from the class able to execute their skills but with little comprehension about when they should be used. I can't count how many times I have told divers I am guiding to inflate their BC while we are waiting for the boat. Sure, they mastered how to inflate their BC: they just don't do it!

Competency is knowing WHEN to push the inflater button and not just how. This is a direct result of NASE being reborn with roots in the commercial dive industry where competency is the key word. It's why I don't have my students gather round in a circle and go through their skills in a serial manner during our OW dives. I want to see them clear their mask when they need to. I want to see them be in complete control of their position in the water column too. IOW, I want to see them plan a dive and then dive that plan with as little interference from me as possible.
 
I like the idea of an agency created with the point of view of cave divers and cave instructors (that shouldn't surprise anyone). But if you are going to try to distinguish yourself as an agency of excellence, you should pick a slogan that uses correct grammar :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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