Teaching safety by example

[scubafool]

British Columbia has bike helmet laws, though it isn't enforced. There is also a helmet law for motorbike riders. One of the big arguments for these laws is it is our tax dollars that keep the injured alive and a head injury can be permanent and expensive. I know my tax money can be put to better uses (such as education, cancer research, etc.), when there are safety devices to help prevent an injury in the first place.

Bill.

Sounds like another good reason to get the government & by extension the taxpayers out of paying for health care.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sounds like another good reason to get the government & by extension the taxpayers out of paying for health care.

Hmmm ... not to hijack the whine, but it's not a good analogy.

Overall Canadians pay less per person for health care than Americans ($325 USD per person vs $1,150 USD per person according to a recent Harvard University study). According to the same study, America pays 14.6% of its GDP on health care, Canada pays 9.6%. Canadians have longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and greater access to prenatal care. Not to mention that 40+ million Canadians won't get turned away from getting health care altogether because they don't have insurance coverage, as their American counterparts will.

There may be good reasons to not pass laws protecting people from themselves ... but your suggestion isn't one of them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lightning Fish]

I pay my little bit every month (less than $50 I think) and I have access to health care. I break my leg, or skull, I get fixed. In the US, as I understand it, if you don't have insurance, that broken leg can get you a $50,000 doller bill.

But when I get fixed, its the taxpayers that pay for it. In Canada, your decision to not wear a helmet or seatbelt can have an impact on every taxpayer in the country. So unfortunately, in Canada, it is not just your problem.

Now if you don't wear a seatbelt, and you become a projectile, what about the poor victim you hit? :icoeek:

Bill.

 

[scubafool]

Actually, I think the whine had already been hijacked, and I was contributing to the hijack. Therefore I had decided to end my hijack assitance and start a new thread on government interference in personal choice, but then I realized that the argument would son turn political, & therefore would be pointless on a diving board.

You guys made some points that I would enjoy discussing with you, but they would not pertain to the subject line.

If I were to participate in street cycling or whatever the proper name for riding down the side of the road, I would seriously consider wearing a helmet. Doing the cycling I did as a kid; ie the closest dirt trail I could find in search of adventure, I didn't then & I wouldn't now choose to wear a helmet. I wouldn't require my child (yes I have one) to wear a helmet either. I can see requiring parents to put their kids in a carseat or seatbelt, but requiring parents to put a helmet on kids AT ALL TIMES while riding a bicycle seems a little far out. If you don't agree, convince me that I am wrong.

 

[michaelp68]

Actually, I think the whine had already been hijacked, and I was contributing to the hijack. Therefore I had decided to end my hijack assitance and start a new thread on government interference in personal choice, but then I realized that the argument would son turn political, & therefore would be pointless on a diving board.

You guys made some points that I would enjoy discussing with you, but they would not pertain to the subject line.

If I were to participate in street cycling or whatever the proper name for riding down the side of the road, I would seriously consider wearing a helmet. Doing the cycling I did as a kid; ie the closest dirt trail I could find in search of adventure, I didn't then & I wouldn't now choose to wear a helmet. I wouldn't require my child (yes I have one) to wear a helmet either. I can see requiring parents to put their kids in a carseat or seatbelt, but requiring parents to put a helmet on kids AT ALL TIMES while riding a bicycle seems a little far out. If you don't agree, convince me that I am wrong.

I wish I could remember the specifics but unfortunately I cannot. But I remember that within the last year, I read some statistics about head injuries received by children riding bicycles without helmets. The frequency and the gravity were astonishing.

From my readings about bike helmet issues in the past, I am under the impression that bike helmet laws for children, in the U.S., exist because very serious head injuries to children are so frequent, and children are arguably not old enough to make their own informed decisions about bike helmets.

When it comes to seatbelt laws and helmet laws for adults, in the U.S., I think people have made good points about not wanting the government telling them what to do. On the other hand, I think others have made good points that when someone is hurt, it's not just about that person, because there are costs/expenses to society for caring for the seriously injured. One point I do not remember seeing, though, is that there are also spouses and children who may be left without support and income, as well. This is just another example that it's rarely just about the injured person making a decision just for him/herself.

The problem I find is that there is just a huge slippery slope for personal lives being micromanaged for safety by the government. It's an interesting topic.

But I think that when it comes to kids, it's better to err on the side of more protection. Less kids die, suffer brain injuries or become paralyzed because of bike helmet laws for kids. I can only see this as a good thing.

 

[Kat]

There's an old biker saying..."Let those who ride, decide."

As an adult, living in a free country, I should be able to make my own health & safety decisions. For myself & my children.
All of my children had bike helmets and knee & elbow pads f/ skateboarding/rollerblading. My 15 year old does not want to wear her bike helmet anymore. Fine, I think she's old enough to decide.

It is the lawsuits that are causing the problem. Years ago, people took responsibility for their own actions. Now, it is everybody elses fault. No one ever says "I screwed up, it was my fault." Let alone, apologize for their actions or behavior.


As for the constant sanitizing w/ anti-bacterial - everything...
Here is a perfect example:
A friend of mine had a child who never got sick. When ever my child was sick, she would act superior & state how little Johnny has never had a cold, sniffle-nothing. And would even hint, that perhaps my house needed to be sanitized better.
So, this healthy little guy goes off to kindergarten & catches every germ, bug, illness known to man. He had no immunity to anything. He is a year behind in school now. He missed so much kindergarten be had to repeat the grade.

Now lets get nuts!
Should we outlaw the constant anti-bacterial cleaning because tax dollars are being used to provide medical care to children who have no immuniy to diseases? It could have been prevented, if the parents had just let the kid be a kid.

 

[michaelp68]

There's an old biker saying..."Let those who ride, decide."

As an adult, living in a free country, I should be able to make my own health & safety decisions. For myself & my children.
All of my children had bike helmets and knee & elbow pads f/ skateboarding/rollerblading. My 15 year old does not want to wear her bike helmet anymore. Fine, I think she's old enough to decide.

It is the lawsuits that are causing the problem. Years ago, people took responsibility for their own actions. Now, it is everybody elses fault. No one ever says "I screwed up, it was my fault." Let alone, apologize for their actions or behavior.


As for the constant sanitizing w/ anti-bacterial - everything...
Here is a perfect example:
A friend of mine had a child who never got sick. When ever my child was sick, she would act superior & state how little Johnny has never had a cold, sniffle-nothing. And would even hint, that perhaps my house needed to be sanitized better.
So, this healthy little guy goes off to kindergarten & catches every germ, bug, illness known to man. He had no immunity to anything. He is a year behind in school now. He missed so much kindergarten be had to repeat the grade.

Now lets get nuts!
Should we outlaw the constant anti-bacterial cleaning because tax dollars are being used to provide medical care to children who have no immuniy to diseases? It could have been prevented, if the parents had just let the kid be a kid.

Kat, you do not have the right to make all the safety decisions for your children.

For example, until they are a certain age, there are lots of activities they cannot do for safety reasons. These include drinking alcohol, serving in the military, obtaining a driver license, employment, attending school, scuba diving....

So, for certain things, society makes minimum safety rules for kids. It seems that the age varies according to the activity. Helmet requirements for kids until a certain age is a good requirement, though, that has no downside and has lots of positives.

 

[Kat]

michaelp68,

I think my children would disagree with you about bike helmets not having a downside. I hear a rather long list, everytime they have to wear their helmet.

Actually, I do have the right to make all their saftey decisions for them. Right up until the state decides I'm unfit. For the sake of argument, they could do all the things you mentioned. Except serve in the military & get a drivers license. However, they don't need the license to drive.
In spite of all the laws, the parent is still in charge of making all the decisions.

 

[Lightning Fish]

If I were to participate in street cycling or whatever the proper name for riding down the side of the road, I would seriously consider wearing a helmet. Doing the cycling I did as a kid; ie the closest dirt trail I could find in search of adventure, I didn't then & I wouldn't now choose to wear a helmet. I wouldn't require my child (yes I have one) to wear a helmet either. I can see requiring parents to put their kids in a carseat or seatbelt, but requiring parents to put a helmet on kids AT ALL TIMES while riding a bicycle seems a little far out. If you don't agree, convince me that I am wrong.

When I grew up we rode all over the place. The highway, dirt trails, gravel roads, ... bike helmet, didn't know it existed. In my adult life I lived near Rossland, BC for a while. They billed themselves as the mountain bike capital of Canada. The riding was great and technical. Everyone wore a helmet. No one would ride with you if you didn't. Now that I'm in Vancouver, when I ride I wear a helmet, too many bad drivers that could cause an accident with me in the middle of it.

As my kids learn, they will use helmets until they are old enough to make that choice for themselves. Just don't ask me what that age will be...

My 15 year old does not want to wear her bike helmet anymore. Fine, I think she's old enough to decide.

What are her reasons? Are they well thought out or are they based on peer pressure, messy hair, etc.?

A friend of mine had a child who never got sick. When ever my child was sick, she would act superior & state how little Johnny has never had a cold, sniffle-nothing. And would even hint, that perhaps my house needed to be sanitized better.
So, this healthy little guy goes off to kindergarten & catches every germ, bug, illness known to man. He had no immunity to anything. He is a year behind in school now. He missed so much kindergarten be had to repeat the grade.

Over sanitization, I think they are attributing an increase in asthma to this as well.

The problem I find is that there is just a huge slippery slope for personal lives being micromanaged for safety by the government. It's an interesting topic.

Yep! Where do you draw the line? I'm not going to look this up to confirm, but a long time ago I was told by a lawyer that (at least in BC) it is illegal to open your car door when it is unsafe to do so. That is to protect the guy driving down the street from the idiot who throws their door open without looking first. Where do you draw the line?

Great topic.

Cheers,
Bill.

 

[Redleg02]

Actually, I think the whine had already been hijacked, and I was contributing to the hijack. Therefore I had decided to end my hijack assitance and start a new thread on government interference in personal choice, but then I realized that the argument would son turn political, & therefore would be pointless on a diving board.

You guys made some points that I would enjoy discussing with you, but they would not pertain to the subject line.

If I were to participate in street cycling or whatever the proper name for riding down the side of the road, I would seriously consider wearing a helmet. Doing the cycling I did as a kid; ie the closest dirt trail I could find in search of adventure, I didn't then & I wouldn't now choose to wear a helmet. I wouldn't require my child (yes I have one) to wear a helmet either. I can see requiring parents to put their kids in a carseat or seatbelt, but requiring parents to put a helmet on kids AT ALL TIMES while riding a bicycle seems a little far out. If you don't agree, convince me that I am wrong.

I have busted two helmets, one on the road and one on the trail. Neither time was the riding technical, nor was i going fast, just pure dumb luck. Without the helmet either time, i wouldn't be here today. Sometime I thing it is my the pure grace of God that I am here today at all, givien all of the really dumb stuff i did aas a kid. I see the same things in my 5-year old now. Does he wear a helmet when he rides his bike? Yep, even though it is purely my choice. Do I wear one? always. I also wear a helmet and wrist guards when I rollerblade. Only took one sprained wrist to teach me that. I try to set a good safety example for my son with everything. I won't do unsafe things in front of him.