Tell me what y'all think about this idea...

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Seajay, you may as well just get yourself a nice hookah rig & get it over with. You can stay down all day on just a dollar's worth of gasoline, not have to worry about tanks anymore. Heck, you won't even have to mess with a BC (or wings) either.
http://www.scubadiving.com/members/memberimages/5855_78_1.jpg
The hookah is sitting in front of the console, hose reels (150' ea) are up on the overhead.
 
Genesis posted:Oh hogwash.

While I'm certainly not one to argue, Genisis's system is consideralbly smaller and less efficient than mine. I'm giving you numbers based on MY actual costs. Maybe Genisis has access to better pricing than I do. I bought a name brand compressor, so I'm sure that added to the price. I also am maticulous in reguards to maitanence. This will of course up the cost as well. I find that the filters on my unit WILL NOT GO PAST
 
-SORRY-
30 HOURS OR SO BEFORE THE EXPIRE. I would however be interested in the source for the filters, as I just replaced all three of mine and the invoice at my cost was approx 250$. I'm putting in a second fill station at another location, and would also be interested in the $100 digital guage that is accurate enough for blending. Best, bob
 
Sure, your system is higher capacity.

Well, do you need higher capacity? What for? If it takes you an hour to drive to the shop and back to get the fills, and the filling takes 30 minutes at the shop, then anything that requires less than 1.5 hours of your time to fill your tanks is a net win, right?

Even ignoring the cost.

If you want to fill a cascade, cool. I can do that if I want to. I'll have to add automatic drains, which I can do for about $200 worth of parts, or I can pay the rip-off artists $1,000 for the same thing on the compressor. The high pressure pilot valve is $100. The low-pressure solenoid valve to use as a "trip" is about $30. The electronics, including an astable multivibrator, power supply and relay can be assembled for well udner $25, and the rest is for miscellaneous plumbing. I'll also need to add a magnetic starter to the compressor and final pressure switch (to shut it down automatically); Graybar industrial supply makes the former and the latter is available from the same folks who make the pilot valve - about $200 for both of those. So a mag starter, final pressure shutdown and auto drains add about $500 to my expense.

4500 psi 444 cuft storage bottles are $350, brand new, DOT. If you want ASME 6000 psi ones you can get them too; they're more expensive but don't require 5-year hydros provided they're going in a fixed installation (which they should be.) Both come with valves for that price. You need to pay for the hardline, of course, the proper flaring tool (not the cheap Home Depot variety; you need the double-edge on Stainless tubing) or compression fittings, valves, and gauges to make the panel. You might also want to buy a fill regulator; some people want them so they can leave a bottle filling and not risk it going "boom"; the Tascom ones are about $250 if you can't stand babysitting your fills. On the other hand if you're going to fill cascade-style (and you should to make the storage system most efficient) you have to be there anyway to open and close the source valves for the cascade; in most cases, after the first fill or so the low pressure storage tank is no longer able to overpressurize the tank being filled anyway.

Alkin is not a "name brand"? Excuse me? Their blocks have only been used in various compressors by various manufacturers since 1960 or so. I think that qualifies; they're not "new to the game." They also use stainless for their interstage coolers, .vs. painted mild steel for most of the others out there. Not a big deal unless you actually live on or near salt water, or intend to ever use that compressor on a BOAT. Oh, its also 1200 rpm, .vs. 3000 for most of the other "smaller" capacity units, which means you can run it all day without overheating it.

Monitoring filter life is easy. The best indication of filter capacity being reached is humidity of the output air. When it reaches 40-60% (at pressure), you change the filters stack, or when hours of operation times output = rated capacity. If you do THAT, then LF hyperfilter stack will run to its full rated life. An inexpensive "eyeball" indicator will tell you when that figure is reached if its early.

If you're paying $250 for your primary (non-hyperfilter) media then you have a MAJORLY high output unit (or you're paying WAY too much for that media.) What is it - 10-12 cfm or thereabouts? Triple chamber parallel filtration, THEN the hyperfilter? That's a dive shop unit, right? 3 phase power? You can't get 3-phase power in most residential areas, even if you did want it.

1% digital gauges are just fine for PP blending, assuming you're using 3000 psi gauges. 1% is 30 psi. The difference between "real gas" and "ideal gas" laws is close to 30 psi for most PP blending. The difference between your fill pressure when you decant from the full bottle (and get cool gas due to adiabatic expansion) to room temperature is almost certainly more than 30 psi. Masurement devices that are more accurate than the other uncertainties in the system are an ABSOLUTE WASTE OF MONEY. With my 1% digital gauges, I am within 0.2% of intended FO2 on my final analysis. Since the tolerance allowed is 1% on "garden variety" Nitrox, my ANALYZER is probably off by at least 0.1% (1 count), and I would only go from 0.2% to 0.1% with a 1/4% digital gauge, the additional $300 is absolutely wasted money. Careful technique (e.g. intentionally adding O2 a bit "short", letting the decanted gas come back to room temperature and verifying the pressure, then making any necessary adjustment before proceeding) is far more important than 1/4% gauges. Oh, by the way, a 4" 1/4% 3000 psi analog gauge cannot be accurately read at a greater accuracy than 20-30 psi anyway, even with a parallax mirror (which it should have), so the 1/4% accuracy figure is true, but misleading to start with. (Cole-Parmer makes a perfectly decent 1% digital unit that is O2 clean and works great)
 
I have done what you want to do. Save your money and buy the compressor. I have found a source for the 4500 psi bottles cheap. I have (3) O2 and (2)HE bottles. It's just much simpler to fill a few tanks from the compressor than to cart the big bottles around and get them filled. Plus if you leave them in a truck or trailer you loose the usability of that vehicle. I just sold my compressor, but I still have the booster pump so I can still fill tanks.
 
Gen, did I understand you to say that you can lease K bottles at $60 a year? And that they fill to 2650 psi? And that I can fill 20 or more AL80's from them?

Did I understand you to say that it's like $300 for a 444 cuft 4500 psi tank?

Did I miss something?

Another question... The last post of mine here in this thread is not mine. I did not place it, yet it sits there with my name on it. WTF?? How did that happen?
 
Gen, did I understand you to say that you can lease K bottles at $60 a year? And that they fill to 2650 psi? And that I can fill 20 or more AL80's from them?

Roughly, yes.

The tank lease is $65/year, actually. To mix my "usual" 30%, assuming the tank is EMPTY, I need 8.8 cuft of O2 in it. The supply tank holds 251 cuft, roughly.

So that's 28 fills and change, if you can use all the gas in the tank. But you can't. You end up with ~350 psi you can't use, or about 4 fills worth. So assuming you dump all your tanks before refilling, you get 23-24 fills.

But, of course, you don't do that if the O2 tank has more pressure in it than your partiallly filled tank! If you have 1000 psi in that AL80, then its 1/3rd full, so now each refill only requires ~6 cubic feet of gas, which stretches things considerably, since there is no point in dumping perfectly good mix if you don't have to. As your supply talk does get down, however, you end up dumping tanks - or getting a second for a cascade. Which you do depends on how much gas you're going through and whether the returned tank with some gas in it bothers you.

My gas supplier charges me $16 for each "K" of ABO. I can get "T"s too for a few more bucks, but they don't fit nicely in my truck (the K's do), so I get those. It works out to roughly $0.75/AL80 for the O2.

Did I understand you to say that it's like $300 for a 444 cuft 4500 psi tank?

Did I miss something?

$349.00 actually, but yes. The only problem is that its ~150lbs so shipping is a PITA.

Another question... The last post of mine here in this thread is not mine. I did not place it, yet it sits there with my name on it. WTF?? How did that happen?

No idea.
 
$350, last one cost me $75 in shipping=$425 Add nut and nipple another $25. Pigtail another $24 each. Genisis, are you gonna reveal the filter source? Someone else already sent me digital guage info, thanks.bob
 
Genesis once bubbled...

The tank lease is $65/year, actually. To mix my "usual" 30%, assuming the tank is EMPTY, I need 8.8 cuft of O2 in it. The supply tank holds 251 cuft, roughly.

Ah, okay. This explains a lot. ...So you're talking about K's filled with O2, for 'trox fills. You use 8.8 cu ft in an Al80 and then top off with air, and you get EAN30. Cool.

And this also explains why someone else said that I'd get like two or three partial AL80 fills, and that'd be it... Thus, it was not worth it.

Yeah, I see that now. I get it. Hmmmm...

...Sounds like y'all are right... Ain't no K bottle that's gonna give me more fills "on the spot." I thought it might be a cool idea... :)

Now, then, if I can only alter my cigarette-lighter 12v tire pump and hazard light (that I got at Autozone) to pump up to 3300 psi through a fill whip... :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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