The Ethics of Promoting Cave Diving

[boulderjohn]

Promoting students to continue training or diving in the overhead environment beyond this level is a violation of NACD ethical standards.

Now, as per that statement that I quoted, my interpretation is this:

Making the training available is perfectly allowed. Making people aware of the risks is actively promoted. Making people aware of where they can go to get training is encouraged, and recommended. But actively recruiting people to take up the sport of cave diving in order to sell your wares is against their code of ethics.

Speaking as a former English teacher, I would say that if the quoted sentence is intended to mean what you say it means, then it needs rewriting or further explanation.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I appreciate the explanation of what the intent of the rule was.

It sounds like when this is done, you spend basically just as much of a time on lecture as a class. If this is the case, it blows my mind that someone wouldn't just pay for two more dives and finish the certification.

James: The class to go from Basic cave to Apprentice requires a minimum of four dives. I have done this type guiding when a student completed Basic Cave, has one more day left on his trip and we decide to make that dive one level up to show him what is next & how it is done safely/properly.

If done properly and constructively there is as much time spent topside explaining things as with the formal class. A good instructor will string out lines between trees and conduct "jumps" including navigation procedures.

 

[kensuf]

Yeah, I got that exact point, and think it's incredibly shortsighted and a huge part of the problem. If you want to limit the number of divers you're going to have to limit the number of instructors. As it currently sits, it's nothing but a Ponzi scheme that encourages a serious bending, if not breaking of the rules. People invest a lot of time and money to be able to teach. If you flood the market, then you've created a situation that depresses the price of becoming a cave diver to the point where corners have to be cut. In addition, you have a number of pretty market savvy agencies who are not playing by the same set of archaic pre-internet rules. Like I said, just change it to "The first rule of cave instruction is that you can't talk about cave instruction". It's far sexier than how it's currently written and you know it's happening anyway.

I don't disagree with some of what you state above. The current system is essentially a Ponzi scheme, which has been driven in some part by the commercialization of the activity. This Ponzi scheme has led to some pretty lousy cave divers and causes damage to the caves. This Ponzi scheme is part of the problem.

But believe it or not, there used to be a time when the majority of cave diving instructors taught the material because they enjoyed teaching the material and to try and keep people that were interested in cave diving from killing themselves. It was not about trying to earn a living by selling the next class. The exchange of money for the training was more of a formality to cover expenses and time than anything else.

I know, crazy talk and I'm a fossil.

 

[ucfdiver]

James: The class to go from Basic cave to Apprentice requires a minimum of four dives. I have done this type guiding when a student completed Basic Cave, has one more day left on his trip and we decide to make that dive one level up to show him what is next & how it is done safely/properly.

If done properly and constructively there is as much time spent topside explaining things as with the formal class. A good instructor will string out lines between trees and conduct "jumps" including navigation procedures.

Makes sense. My gut wants to ask why not just see a new intro cave (since a 2 day class wont even touch 1/4 of them). With that being said, I can't think of a situation where a diver should be passed at the intro level who you wouldn't trust diving Hill 400 or Bone line. In the scheme of what goes wrong with instruction today, imo, this isn't even on the list.

 

[cerich]

Hope it really didn't occur,but there was enough bragging by the individual. Dive location was LR.

I've seen this as well and got told I was an a complete hole by the intro diver when I approached and suggested it was unwise

 

[kafkaland]

As someone who was recently Intro certified, and has done a few guided dives slightly above the Intro level since, I just want to chime in and say that this was a valuable experience for me.

I got my Cavern / Intro Cave cert this winter in Playa del Carmen, and now had a few days over spring break for diving. My buddy from the cave course was unavailable, so I decided to go back to Playa to do a few guided dives with my instructor from the intro course. We decided that we would set the turn pressure between sixth and thirds, so that I get to experience longer dives and see more of the caves. And, that we would not turn the dive when we come across a temporary T that is created when someone else ties a jump into the main line, but properly cookie it and continue our dive. And the latter was a very good thing, as we reached such a T just 200 ft. in on our first dive. If I hadn't been with an instructor, I would have had to turn my dive right there (talk about a temptation to break the rules if I had been on my own...) Now with the instructor, I got to see a few of these very simple navigational procedures for real, and overall got more cave time in. I was very happy with how this went, and felt comfortable at all times. In fact what made me the most uncomfortable was something still within the rules for Intro: "almost Ts", where a line into a side tunnel ends sometimes less than a foot away from the main line. Easy to accidentally jump if you don't pay attention. Having a guide was definitely reassuring. Yet, none of the dives were trust-me dives - had my instructor just vanished, I would have found my way out safely even if one more thing, like blown visibility or a free flow, had gone wrong.

I prefer doing a few dives like that before going on to taking the full cave course. It makes sense for me to build some experience that way, not to mention it allows me to make some fun cave dives without having to worry about a buddy. And I will probably do a few more of these (and do AN/DP) before taking the full cave course.

 

[boulderjohn]

In ScubaBoard our policy does not allow posts promoting diving in caves without proper training. Despite this policy, we have had a number of threads in which untrained people have made "what's the big deal?" arguments in favor of just diving if the caves without training. In response, cave divers and especially instructors have responded with posts explaining why it is indeed a big deal and why appropriate training is valuable. I imagine discussions like this probably happen with some frequency on scuba forums that do not have ScubaBoard's policy so posters do not have to rely in moderator inattention to make their arguments.

I believe that well-stated arguments about why training is necessary form an important and necessary response to those who argue that training is not necessary. As I read the NACD policy, though, such posts would be a violation, since they promote cave diving training.

If the intention of the policy is only to ban instructor advertising, then it needs to be reworded. If that is the intention, the rewording should consider the effect on the web sites pretty much every cave diving instructor has and explain how someone who wants cave diving training can find an instructor who is not allowed to advertise.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

As someone who was recently Intro certified, and has done a few guided dives slightly above the Intro level since, I just want to chime in and say that this was a valuable experience for me.

Would you kindly explain to us how much preparation you had in terms of planning the dive? i.e. Did you discuss the implications of diving beyond your "official" training? Did you discuss the implications for diving beyond the 1/6 rule? Did you go over how the "T's" would be negotiated and how you would have 100% confidence that when exiting and coming back to the "T" you would be exiting in the correct direction?

 

[Omisson]

I've seen this as well and got told I was an a complete hole by the intro diver when I approached and suggested it was unwise

But doing it may save a life- seems the right choice despite the negative feedback.

 

[The Chairman]

But believe it or not, there used to be a time when the majority of cave diving instructors taught the material because they enjoyed teaching the material

it's my opinion that this is still the case. I have yet to meet the instructor that got into it for purely fiscal reasons. Sure, they think it's a neat idea that they can make their living DOING what they love, but that's mostly secondary.

I even think that the motive behind the "First rule about cave instruction is that you don't talk about cave instruction" was a good one. Unfortunately, it did not work the way it was intended to. Instead of putting the kibash on overly eager/under skilled divers it created an elitest mentality: one that many instructors and divers think is wrong. Getting to full cave should never be a race or a struggle. It should never be unnaturally impeded so that the student feels they have to push hard, ergo making it a race. I think that Ben McDaniel (Vortex 2010) is a perfect example of this.

The way to circumvent that type of mentality is to bring instruction completely into the light. Publish the standards, outline and promote the path to full cave and beyond and also discuss what happens when cavers go rogue. Encouraging instructors to actively promote training will go a long, long way to educating people just why it's important and how deadly it is to go it alone.

I hope I don't come across as being simply argumentative here. These are issues I've raised with a few of my cave mentors over the years. But then, I'm an internet kind of guy, so you can call me biased. It's OK.