The first double hose?

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Oldmossback
These statements are not just “according to Luis”. There is substantial physical evidence, drawings and write ups from Emile Gagnan himself, articles in the Historical Diving Society (from Phil Nuytten and others), and lots of hardware pictures to back my statements.

There are plenty of examples of the CG45. I also have pictures of the Bakelite rectangular regulator and you can see pictures of the Gasone in the Historical Diving Society magazine.


Added:
In God we trust… everyone else, please bring data/ hard evidence. :)

Luis
I am not questioning your statments about which came first......I presume with out question your knowledge and authority in the history of Gagnan.......as there are others here on this forum who also are more knowledgable than I concerning DH history.

Perhaps I should have stated my comment differently when referencing your post so it would not have seemed to show doubt...I was meerly attempting to give you credit.....I am not a history buff on the doublehose, my interests lay with current and future development......as I stated when I first posted, I might be wrong and would be corrected.........I considered that a given.

That being said; I was basicly complaining that the books I have are not accurate as they only give short mention of Gagnan and his design (one was sponsored by Dacor) and I learn now they were wrong.
 
There is a photo on page 76 of the book, The Ocean World of Jacques Cousteau, Man Re-enters the Sea which shows close up the original rectangular regulator that Cousteau and Gagnan developed. Their original patent in the U.S. Patent Office shows a two-stage regulator as being the second generation, and two single-stage regulators in-line in the original Cousteau-Gagnan Aqualung.

SeaRat
 
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I understand that posts don’t always sound the way we intended it. I just wanted to make sure everyone understood that it wasn’t just my opinion when I am disputing stuff that it is written in other books. When possible, I like to back my statements with the best facts that I have access to.

The problem with not knowing the past is that one is bound to make the same mistakes again.

As an engineer I like to study old designs. You would be amazed at how many so called “new ideas” haven’t already being tried in one form or another.
 
Here is the drawing from the original Cousteau-Gagnan patent from 1949 (USA).

AquaLungPatentDiagram1.jpg


Also, here is a patent for Gagnan-Cousteau (reversal of names) for a single stage, downstream valve regulator which looks a lot like the AMF Voit 50 Fathom.

GagnansReservereg.jpg


SeaRat
 
Here is the drawing from the original Cousteau-Gagnan patent from 1949 (USA).

AquaLungPatentDiagram1.jpg


Also, here is a patent for Gagnan-Cousteau (reversal of names) for a single stage, downstream valve regulator which looks a lot like the AMF Voit 50 Fathom.

GagnansReservereg.jpg


SeaRat
I have just been reading the patent, and the text is very interesting. If you will look at Fig. 1, you will see in the upper left area that there are actually two regulators, or reducing valves, on the original Cousteau patent. The first is designated "D," and is a regulator which reduces the pressure from tank pressure to an interstage pressure. Gagnan, in the text, states:
...The regulator shown in Fig. 1a is of the same type as that described in Swiss Patent No. 234,418 granted on the invention of one of the inventors of the present diving unit, but it might as well be of any other conventional type, inasmuch as the mechanism through which the deflection of the resilient diaphragm controls the opening of the valve member is quite immaterial in the present invention...
In other words, this is a Gagnan single stage regulator in line with a second demand regulator, which also is a single stage regulator. This makes sense if you look at the original black and white photos of Dumas diving the original three-tank Aqualung as shown in The Silent World (the book, not the movie). There are many, almost a tangle, of lines and hoses on that system. So from what I can tell, the original open circuit scuba by Cousteau-Gagnan was two single stage regulators in line. This is corroborated by the patent description itself:
While two one-stage pressure regulators D and E have been shown, they may, if desired, be replaced in known manner by one two-stage regulator.
Such a regulator is shown in Figs. 4 to 11...
The patent then shows a diagram, Figures 4 to 11, which is the exact diagrams of the CG-45 and the DA Aqualung.

What this tells me is that Gagnan took his original regulator, and built onto it a second single-stage regulator which operated on an interstage pressure:
The air which has passed through one of the cocks, K or L, as the case may be, flows through the pipe P and thence through a first pressure-reducing valve or regulator D, which delivers it under a predetermined pressure of a few, for instance two, kilograms per square centimeter in excess of that of the surrounding media. The air then flows through pipe Q to a second pressure regulator shown generally at E, and on a larger scale in cross section in Fig. 1a.
The description of how the second regulator operates is in the patent too. But the above description leads to the question of how much air they were able to get through this rig, when the interstage pressure appears to be only about 30 psig. This may be why they went so quickly to the CG-45 and DA Aqualung.

There are other tidbits, as for instance the use of cylinders
designed that when the cylinders are empty it has an apparent weight in water which is nill, whether it be in river water or sea water, etc. The weight of the breathable gas which fills the cylinders is compensated for, for example, by releasable floats which may be secured to the belt of a diver and which are released by him one by one as he consumes breathable gas, so as to maintain buoyancy as near to zero as possible. The buoyancy of the diver himself, which is dependent on his breathing capacity and which is about 2 to 3 kgs., is compensated for by a single releasable lead weight, which also may be secured to the belt and designated "safety lead."
There's even more, but you get the idea. I can envision Cousteau and Dumas on their trial dives saying "Wow, these cylinders are heavy; we need some buoyancy to throw away during the dive as the air pressure lessens and we gain buoyancy." After all, they were diving three super-long tanks.

SeaRat
 
John,

1. The first drawing looks like a single stage, unless I am missing some small ports and springs. True?

2. Any idea what the lever looking assembly, part 92 on the second drawing is about? Built-in reserve maybe?
1. True--see above (two single stage regulators in-line).

2. Yes, it is a reserve mechanism. That was never used in the AMF Voit Fifty Fathom; the lever system was changed too.

SeaRat
 
... This makes sense if you look at the original black and white photos of Dumas diving the original three-tank Aqualung as shown in The Silent World (the book, not the movie). There are many, almost a tangle, of lines and hoses on that system. …

I just looked through my copy and am not sure which photos. There are some taken on the wreck of the Tozeur, but I can’t make out the details well enough in my copy.

… I can envision Cousteau and Dumas on their trial dives saying "Wow, these cylinders are heavy; we need some buoyancy to throw away during the dive as the air pressure lessens and we gain buoyancy." After all, they were diving three super-long tanks…

No exaggeration about the long cylinders, they extend more than halfway down his thigh. Can we scan photos and post if credited? It won’t be that much longer before the 75 years are up on the copyright.

I wonder if any documentation photos of prototypes survive.

It is interesting how the third tank in the patent drawing is illustrated/plumbed for a reserve. You have to wonder how many conversations took place over modifying a pressure gauge the diver could check but rejected due to production costs. There were certainly enough options to connect one in all the hard piping, but maybe HP hose availability or reliability was the limiting factor???
 
...
2. Yes, it is a reserve mechanism. That was never used in the AMF Voit Fifty Fathom; the lever system was changed too...

Did Voit license the Fifty Fathom or was the patent too weak? For that matter, the similarity between the USD Aqua-Master and the Voit V66 Navy looked like it kept respective patent attorney employed.

I never examined the guts, was the single-stage Fifty Fathom that much different than the US Divers single-stage Mistral and Jet-Air mechanically?
 
Does anyone know if Cousteau had a relationship with Air Liquide before the Gagnan collaboration or did it come after? I was always surprised that Cousteau didn’t go into the trials and tribulations of development in much detail (at least that I could find). It had to be a really interesting story considering the Nazi occupation and all the parts were high-value war materials.

If memory serves me correctly, the answer is yes. I don't remember the exact relationship with Air Liquide, but I believe it was through his grandfather. You can read about it in Jean-Michel's book My Father, The Captain. I'm leaving for Florida today so I don't have time to look it up myself.

NOTE: I Just saw Luis H's post that it was Simone's father so my memory apparently wasn't correct
 
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