MNScuba
Guest
Since there's a rather good discussion going on about online buying, I thought a poll would help put things into perspective.
The Great local dive shop vs. online debate
- Thread starter Scuba Sal
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F
Ferrara
Guest
Flash, Waterdogs, Spydertec,
Flash,
You say dive shops should adapt. If we play by the rules, as they exist, I see no options. We cant expand service because unless you are a dealer you cant be authorized to service. Cant be a dealer for very many lines because we have to buy more than we can sell. We cant lower prices unless we increase volumes, could buy at a lower price or reduced overhead like the online merchants. Playing by the rules, we do not have a worldwide market.
Waterdogs,
You are not wrong for trying on a bc at an lds then buying elsewhere. But you wont be able to do it for long if you dont pay for it. We wont have the stuff for you to try on. You dont owe me, but I cant buy a bc with my money just so I can have it here for you to play with, while I stand around using my knowledge and experience to make a sale for an online merchant. The online merchant is spared the expense of paying a dive pro (salesman). They have me for free.
Spydertec,
If I purchased inventory from sources other than the distributor I could offer a wider range of products and increase volumes. You are correct that it is not illegal to sell something you own. However I would not be authorized by the manufacturer to provide service so I would have to backdoor (black market) parts and service manuals also.
There would be additional risk for everyone involved. Lets say I sell you a reg. There is a problem with the reg that I cant economically fix. Do I eat the reg, or stiff you?. If I were a dealer we both would be taken care of. I might have to eat some shipping and a little time. Online merchants depend on huge volumes from worldwide markets to take up the slack. I would still have a limited market and volumes and maybe less than reliable suppliers. A couple of warranty issues could put me in the red in a hurry. What if you got hurt while using the reg. Did an authorized tech inspect the reg to manufacturers specs before it was sold? No. Could I even know if what I sold you was the real thing vs. counterfeit or tampered with? No. Providing unauthorized service would be very risky from a liability standpoint. A private person may not incur much liability selling used or black market life support equipment (I dont really know) but a dive shop would.
Flash,
You say dive shops should adapt. If we play by the rules, as they exist, I see no options. We cant expand service because unless you are a dealer you cant be authorized to service. Cant be a dealer for very many lines because we have to buy more than we can sell. We cant lower prices unless we increase volumes, could buy at a lower price or reduced overhead like the online merchants. Playing by the rules, we do not have a worldwide market.
Waterdogs,
You are not wrong for trying on a bc at an lds then buying elsewhere. But you wont be able to do it for long if you dont pay for it. We wont have the stuff for you to try on. You dont owe me, but I cant buy a bc with my money just so I can have it here for you to play with, while I stand around using my knowledge and experience to make a sale for an online merchant. The online merchant is spared the expense of paying a dive pro (salesman). They have me for free.
Spydertec,
If I purchased inventory from sources other than the distributor I could offer a wider range of products and increase volumes. You are correct that it is not illegal to sell something you own. However I would not be authorized by the manufacturer to provide service so I would have to backdoor (black market) parts and service manuals also.
There would be additional risk for everyone involved. Lets say I sell you a reg. There is a problem with the reg that I cant economically fix. Do I eat the reg, or stiff you?. If I were a dealer we both would be taken care of. I might have to eat some shipping and a little time. Online merchants depend on huge volumes from worldwide markets to take up the slack. I would still have a limited market and volumes and maybe less than reliable suppliers. A couple of warranty issues could put me in the red in a hurry. What if you got hurt while using the reg. Did an authorized tech inspect the reg to manufacturers specs before it was sold? No. Could I even know if what I sold you was the real thing vs. counterfeit or tampered with? No. Providing unauthorized service would be very risky from a liability standpoint. A private person may not incur much liability selling used or black market life support equipment (I dont really know) but a dive shop would.
large_diver
Contributor
One suggestion I might add would be to change the buckets so they are slightly smaller and more "even" (specifically the 10-50% bucket)
MNScuba
Guest
Yeah, good point. I'll need moderators assistance, or maybe the poll can be deleted and I'll recreate a more realistic poll...
sea nmf
Contributor
I would just like to say that I appreciate the responses from the Dive Shop Owners perspective. This is important information.
However, I don't have the time to read each post. What I want to know from the shop owners is why are the prices so much more expensive than online. Is it simply overhead or does the manufacturer set the retail prices as I've heard in the past?
Also, if part of the answer is that the mfg sets the prices, then how can these "unauthorized" online dealers get this brand new equipment to sell at these low prices in the first place?
Thanks!,
becky
However, I don't have the time to read each post. What I want to know from the shop owners is why are the prices so much more expensive than online. Is it simply overhead or does the manufacturer set the retail prices as I've heard in the past?
Also, if part of the answer is that the mfg sets the prices, then how can these "unauthorized" online dealers get this brand new equipment to sell at these low prices in the first place?
Thanks!,
becky
F
Ferrara
Guest
The short answer is that to some extent the manufacturers do set the price. They do this in two ways. Some dealer contracts make you agree to certain price and marketing restrictions (no internet or mail-order). Other factors are costs of the inventory volume and overhead. If I marked up a reg 10%, which would still be higher than the online price, It would better to save gas money and stay home. Due to the size of my market my volume is limited so lowering the price, past a certain point, only reduces revenue. In fact, most of what I sell, I would, probably, sell even if the price were raised. At the same time it isnt possible to go low enough to please the online people and increase market share.
How the online merchants get the stuff? That is what I would like to know. There are many products that you can get for the same or lower price than what I can get as a dealer. Besides that who says it is new stuff. Some online merchants are authorized to sell their products. However much of it is backdoor (gray market). There also seems to be a discrepancy between what foreign vs domestic companies can get away with. Im trying to get some answers on that. So far either no one knows or no one is talking.
I had a guy call me the other day and ask if I could match an online price for a Cressi reg. The price he quoted was way way less than what I pay. We called Cressi and they said that price is way less than what any dealer pays. Who knows?
Some of the online prices are to good to last. When we are gone and they have to provide the additional expertise and services that we now provide for them (at no cost to them) prices may go up.
How the online merchants get the stuff? That is what I would like to know. There are many products that you can get for the same or lower price than what I can get as a dealer. Besides that who says it is new stuff. Some online merchants are authorized to sell their products. However much of it is backdoor (gray market). There also seems to be a discrepancy between what foreign vs domestic companies can get away with. Im trying to get some answers on that. So far either no one knows or no one is talking.
I had a guy call me the other day and ask if I could match an online price for a Cressi reg. The price he quoted was way way less than what I pay. We called Cressi and they said that price is way less than what any dealer pays. Who knows?
Some of the online prices are to good to last. When we are gone and they have to provide the additional expertise and services that we now provide for them (at no cost to them) prices may go up.
I used to buy more gear on line than I do now. I've developed a good relationship with a few of the LDS's in my area and prefer to buy from them. I still buy a few things on line but not much. When I was first buying my gear I bought a lot of things like lights, clips and other non essentials on line.
Scott
Scott
Murdock....I can edit your poll for you so if you'll PM me with the changes you want to make, I'll see what I can do.
None whatsoever. Wouldn't buy anything without trying it on first.
Besides-I get it in te same price stores get it, so it comes out cheaper anyway....
Besides-I get it in te same price stores get it, so it comes out cheaper anyway....
Lost Yooper
Guest
I mail order (from various shops and discount suppiers) everything of significance (95%+). I don't have much to choose from as far as LDS's are concerned, and the few that are up here don't have anything I want.
Mike
Mike
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