Tim Ingersoll
Contributor
I guess I am just tired of walking out of that store feeling that I am paying for someone else's next dive vacation. If I could get my gear services at the local hardware store I would never walk into the LDS again.
The Great local dive shop vs. online debate
- Thread starter Scuba Sal
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WillAbbott
Guest
I have one semi-off the topic thought/question.
What happens if even 25-50% of the LDS's do become extinct or out of business?
Where we gonna get our air. I don't know about where you are but where I am I have 4 dive shops within an hour drive of me, one way. After that it's 2 hours one way. So if 1/2 go away I'm good for local fills. However many sites only have one shop if any so if 50% go away there, that means I have to now carry enough tanks to do all the dives (for the instructors thats a NIGHTmare. Who already carry 20+ tanks and have to fill them at least once)
I personnally don't want to have to shell out the 3grand (or whatever) for my own fill station, but if 25-50% of the shops went away I think I would have to, or not dive much.
What happens if even 25-50% of the LDS's do become extinct or out of business?
Where we gonna get our air. I don't know about where you are but where I am I have 4 dive shops within an hour drive of me, one way. After that it's 2 hours one way. So if 1/2 go away I'm good for local fills. However many sites only have one shop if any so if 50% go away there, that means I have to now carry enough tanks to do all the dives (for the instructors thats a NIGHTmare. Who already carry 20+ tanks and have to fill them at least once)
I personnally don't want to have to shell out the 3grand (or whatever) for my own fill station, but if 25-50% of the shops went away I think I would have to, or not dive much.
And how many buddies do you do them with?
If its just two of you, then the economics are tougher to deal with. But if there are 4 or more, and you're doing quite a bit of diving, then it economics are more compelling, especially if you're diving Nitrox...
If its just two of you, then the economics are tougher to deal with. But if there are 4 or more, and you're doing quite a bit of diving, then it economics are more compelling, especially if you're diving Nitrox...
I deal with a LDS that is owned and operated by divers. They are wonderful to deal (good buisness managers since they have been there for 10 years - which is rare for diver/owners) with, provide fair prices (maybe 5 10% higher than on the net), great advice and super service. I guess that in Calgary AB we are privileged to have a dive shop with owners such as them. Oh, and half the time I am not charged the $6.00 (4.00 usd) for air.
My business stays with the LDS.
My business stays with the LDS.
Scuba
Contributor
WillAbbott wrote:
Good question and a concern of many when it comes to diving. What can divers with no shops near by do? Drive longer distances, buy more tanks, buy a compressor, get together with others to share the cost of a compressor, join a local club that runs a compressor, dive less, give up diving.
Where at first glance it may appear the best option is to pay high prices to keep a local shop in business, and for some this will be their choice, there are other options. If you pay on average 40% more for everything thing you buy from your LDS than you could pay by buying from another retailer, and just as an example lets say you spend $ 2000 in gear purchases to get started, you have spent $ 800 more than necessary. Next time you go get that 3 or 4 dollar air fill the shops claim is a giveaway, ask yourself, how much are you really paying for that airfill. A heck of lot, isn't it? Get 4 diver together under this scenerio and you have $ 3200 for a compressor, along with all the gear you wanted. True, maintenance and operation will have to be added and worked out, but then you get the benefits of your own compressor.
This is not the ideal solution for everyone, obviously, but it would be for many if they consider it.
Good question and a concern of many when it comes to diving. What can divers with no shops near by do? Drive longer distances, buy more tanks, buy a compressor, get together with others to share the cost of a compressor, join a local club that runs a compressor, dive less, give up diving.
Where at first glance it may appear the best option is to pay high prices to keep a local shop in business, and for some this will be their choice, there are other options. If you pay on average 40% more for everything thing you buy from your LDS than you could pay by buying from another retailer, and just as an example lets say you spend $ 2000 in gear purchases to get started, you have spent $ 800 more than necessary. Next time you go get that 3 or 4 dollar air fill the shops claim is a giveaway, ask yourself, how much are you really paying for that airfill. A heck of lot, isn't it? Get 4 diver together under this scenerio and you have $ 3200 for a compressor, along with all the gear you wanted. True, maintenance and operation will have to be added and worked out, but then you get the benefits of your own compressor.
This is not the ideal solution for everyone, obviously, but it would be for many if they consider it.
Tractor Tom
Contributor
I have been buying up equipment this season, as I'm 'getting back in' after a while when I didn't dive. I have a LDS not too far from my one office that is a pleasure to deal with. When I first went looking, they spent hours with me talking about diving and explaining the equipment and what they carry. I bought my 3mm shorty there, on sale as cheap as I have ever seen on the internet. They sold me my mask and got my prescription lenses and installed them. When I decided on a new BC, the best bet was on the internet and I bought it there. Fins came from the internet too, from e-Bay, both times. When it came to regs and instruments, I went back to the LDS, as I wanted the ability to have them checked and repaired locally. When I put the whole package together and wanted to get wet to check how much weight I would need (I've been losing weight) I used the LDS pool for free. It's good to have a local shop that you can trust, and YES the regs would have been cheaper on the internet, but who would I go to for service????
Just my $.02
Just my $.02
The last time I bought deco gas (before I opened a shop) I paid $25/tank for 50%. And I had to get it in Chicago. In most cases for a dive on the great lakes I would need to take an extra day just to travel to get gas. Therefore I will never (by choice) be without a fill station. I can't afford the gas now (we can burn a couple hundred bucks in He and O2 in a weekend easy. If I was paying for fills you could double that. Pick just about any place that sells gas and price two sets of doubles and two stages of trimix. two al 80's of O2 and two al 80's of 50%.
For some the biggest expense may be a heated building to put the fill station in. Winter is pretty long here and it doesn't slow my diving.
For some the biggest expense may be a heated building to put the fill station in. Winter is pretty long here and it doesn't slow my diving.
Now you understand, after pricing a few "T"s, why people say the LDSs are ripping people off overall.
(A T has ~400 cuft of usable gas, and costs under $20 for ABO. If you filled a 40 cube tank with 50% for deco, you'd put in about 11 cubes - or about 1/40th of that tank - or, to be more precise, about $0.55 worth of O2. The rest is air.)
And people wonder why compressors look more and more attractive the more often you dive.
(A T has ~400 cuft of usable gas, and costs under $20 for ABO. If you filled a 40 cube tank with 50% for deco, you'd put in about 11 cubes - or about 1/40th of that tank - or, to be more precise, about $0.55 worth of O2. The rest is air.)
And people wonder why compressors look more and more attractive the more often you dive.
They were 80's we paid $25 for. The $25 also covered tank rental. Who is going to spend an extra day to drive 120 miles to Chicago to get their deco bottle filled? When you pay for PP mixing your paying for someone to stand there and do it. The cost of the O2 isn't the issue. To mix 50% into an 80 you adding 1101 psi of O2. That takes 15 minutes or more just to put the O2 in the tank. There isn't anybody around here pumping gas in any volume like in Florida.
For 337 cubic feet at 2640 (T?) I pay over $30 for aviators. I don't have a booster so I only get it down to about 500 psi at the lowest. That's about $.11/ft We often can only get them pumped to 2400 but the price is the same.
Sometimes we can only get the smaller bottles (K?) price stays the same.
The lower the presure or volume the more you need for the cascade. Now you end up with a bunch of tanks sitting around and you usually pay rent (or some kind of lease) on them.
The suppliers around here don't seem to like high presure O2.
Mixing gas in small volumes costs a fortune that's why nobody around here does it.
My customers are lucky. I mix gas because I use it otherwise I wouldn't have it at all because it makes no business sense.
I just made blenders out of my mixed gas divers so they can mix it themself. I cant charge enough to make it worth standing around mixing I'll sell them the gas and rent them the equipment and I'll go do something that pays.
Wreck/Tec
Contributor
Mike
I'v done some he and love it. I love Porsha cars also, that dosn't mean I can afford it though. Only once in a great while. Most of the time 21% primary gas, 50/50, and 100%. I have an o2 station with a partner, so that's easier to afford.
I'v done some he and love it. I love Porsha cars also, that dosn't mean I can afford it though. Only once in a great while. Most of the time 21% primary gas, 50/50, and 100%. I have an o2 station with a partner, so that's easier to afford.
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