The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[Redleg]

I figured out if I would have paid full price for the course and bought the exact equipment online I would have still been out ahead $100, which is a reasonable mark up after reading all of the informed responses. If the Dive Shop would have taken the time to explain about half of the reasons for a mark up (such as warranty, and to off set price of the course). Instead of making the issue into something personal like I was stabbing them in the back by comparing prices. I am glad to hear that my experience sounds like it is definitely unique. In the future I am going to be taking my business elsewhere when it comes to all of my diving needs. At my new Dive Shop or Online. I would like to thank everyone for their professional and courteous advice and I can't wait to become more involved with what seems to be an outstanding group of people.

Best Wishes,
Redleg

 

[cstreu1026]

Unfortunately your encounter doesn't seem to all that un common especially for new divers. While there are many good shops out there, it is likely that there are just as many not so good or even terrible ones. I checked out about a half dozen before I bought anything major. I tend to buy locally as I like to support local business but sometimes the online deals are just too good to pass up.

Another thing to keep in mind is that these high prices you see in dive shops are quite often contoled and established by the manufacturer. From what I understand Scuba Pro limits discounts to 10% off MSRP. This is not uncommon in a lot of retail.

You will likely get people on the board that say online gear is inferior. In most cases if you buy from a well respected online source you get first quality gear. It is often from European dealers or distributors where there is no price control and profit margins are sacrificed for the sake of selling much higher quantities.

 

[Scottri]

Sure, buy your gear online. Then when your local dive shop is closed you can take your next class on line. You can ship your tanks to Leisure Pro for fills.

Trust me, the shop didn't make money on your class. The made a few bucks on the gear. So what. They have to make it somewhere. Classes are a loss leader. It brings people in the door but it doesn't keep em open.

Equipment Manufacturers regulate the price. Most shops would love to compete with online stores but can't.


Scott

 

[adjuster-jd]

Since manufacturers seem to control the prices or at least permissible discounts, how do the online shops afford to sell items so much cheaper? I understand warranty issues, etc, but are they buying in much greater quantity, grey market, or what?

 

[wreckchick]

I'll let the other folk discuss how online retailers can set their prices so low. What I know is how my LDS treated me when I was in your shoes.

We signed up for the class, no discount and bought our starter gear with them as a show of support. What we got was expert advice, mostly good fitting gear. A mask you just can't buy online and know it will fit unless you try it on at an LDS then go home and order it online. I consider that poor sportsmanship. I ended up getting new fins from another shop because the lines my shop carried didn't fit me well. No hard feelings. I got substantial discounts on all the rest of my gear. I paid 1/2 retail on my BC, it was an instructor order and she changed her mind so the shop still had it and it fit me well. My then husband had problems with his mask, it was returned to them and replaced with a new mask and he received a credit equal to the full purchase price for the new mask. I got my 1st year's maintenence for my reg done at NO cost to me. I can bring any of my gear in for tweaking/testing at any time. I have unlimited use of their pool for skill work.

They have been friendly and helpful every single time I walk in the door. I had to rent some gear the last time I went diving and told them I would be diving for 2 days, when I came back they asked how many days I'd gone out, I said 1, they refunded half my rental fee. Their motto is they want everyone to be happy with everything that they purchase and if they aren't they make it right.

Did I pay probably substantially more through them then I would have online? Yes. Would I have come out ahead in the long run? I doubt it. An online retailer doesn't care if the mask doesn't fit. That $25 mask could end up being a $75 dollar mask and you'd have a novelty candy dish to show for your effort. A good relationship with your LDS is something that can't be replaced online.

JMHO

Rachel

 

[jbd]

is that its the distributors that set the price restrictions not the actual manufacturer's of the equipment. I have heard the coment that actually it was the LDS owners that asked for pricing protection to insure that they would make money selling gear.

 

[Lead_carrier]

adjuster-jd once bubbled...
Since manufacturers seem to control the prices or at least permissible discounts, how do the online shops afford to sell items so much cheaper? I understand warranty issues, etc, but are they buying in much greater quantity, grey market, or what?

In most cases they are buying grey market, importing from Europe or Mexico. If you will check the online "shops" most all of them are honest enough to tell you up front that they are not authorized dealers and you have no warranty other than what their outlet offers. If you ship your gear back to them for service each year then can receive their warranty. I've actually had former customers get mad because I would not honor an online stores warranty when a problem came up with equipment. I'm not good enough to sell equipment to them but I'm good enough to repair it for free.. Right.

As a consumer I can understand wanting to buy online to save money, but as a dive professional, I also know how inland dive shops stay alive and it isn't from equipment repairs and tank fills. No, I can't compete money wise with the importers but the next time your reg breaks the week before you dive vacation, see if any of the employees of Leisure Pro will loan you their personal equipment to borrow for a while.

 

[tholt576]

Redleg once bubbled...
Hello I recently signed up for a diving class through my local dive shop. After purchasing a set of personal gear from the shop which was required because I had received a discounted price on the class. When I arrived home I wanted to do a comparison of some prices. I managed to find almost every piece of equipment I puchased from the store for drastically lower prices (The fins that the diveshop charged me $180 were $80 online, The $80 mask from the dive shop was $25 online) I am by no means a cheap person I wanted some quality equipment however almost every piece of equipment I bought from the store was at least 50% cheaper online. Needless to say since my only source of information on equipment was from the dive shop I felt that I had basically been RIPPED off by what I believed to be some very helping and kind people. The next day I returned to the dive shop to try to reach some type of agreement. Ideally I would of wanted the shop to match the price that I had found at another retailer but I was willing to agree to a 10% markup due to the reccomendations, service and support that you just can't get from an online dealer. However when I walked into the shop which had an ALL SALES ARE FINAL disclaimer on the announcement board (which was not there the day before). The manager became very defensive when I informed him/her about the price difference between what I was charged and what I could purchase the same equipment for online. After being told there is no way they will change the price I was sold the items for I asked if I could make an exchange for a cheaper set of personal gear to use as a back up which they also refused to do. I consider myself a huge supporter of local business and will always go out of my way to shop at a Mom and Pop style store there is a customer service and an expertise that you get that these large retailers normaly just can't match (in most cases). The Manager also informed me that these online retailers are running all the little businesses out of the water (no pun intended). Is this true that most of these small businesses just can't compete with these huge online dealers? Is it also standard practice in the small diving shop community to have a no return or exchange policy? I would like to support my local business but I am also a consumer who is going to look for the best possible deal. With most online dealers I at least have a 30 day money back guarantee, I aslo would have saved hundreds of dollars? This has been a very disappointing start to what was obviously a very exciting beginning in the sport of diving

I think it's a good idea to support your LDS, but sometimes their prices make it hard to do. In a perfect world you'd be able to walk down there and get anything you wanted and have it all be the best price available. The problem is that they have a lot of expenses that online shops don't have and consequently have to charge more.

I say this having my own online shop.

 

[svidlano]

tholt576 once bubbled...


I think it's a good idea to support your LDS, but sometimes their prices make it hard to do. In a perfect world you'd be able to walk down there and get anything you wanted and have it all be the best price available. The problem is that they have a lot of expenses that online shops don't have and consequently have to charge more.

I say this having my own online shop.

In a perfect world diving equipment would grow in the trees and anyone could take it for free.

 

[Krisscuba]

Sounds like Redleg is in Bens shop.

the joke there was that when you went into his shop, he would dive so deep and so fast into your wallet you would get the Bens, (BENDS).

I have been certified since 74 and have dozens of instructor certs. I stay as far away from dive shops as possible. I do not remember the last tiem I was in a dive shop or bought air from one. I live in Florida and one of my local dive sites is Morrison Springs. The shop has no gear for sale, and very little for rent. Thye provide air fills and diving. Often I fill tanks therer and take the boat out somewhere else. I have 7 tsanks due hydro. I have never taken one to a dive shop, I take them to to local fire safety/inspection place etc.

If you get involved in the local vol fire dept/rescue. they have a compressor. Normally a compressor that would darf a dive shops. After all when there is a fire, several truck have to get a hundred cylinders charged very quickly.

I am angry with that piece of garbage mag Dive Training. The crap on the back page about suportiing your local dive shop. It is not my responability to support a dive shop. It is the shops responability to make me want to come in. Unfortuantly, a lot o fland locked dive shops only chance at making money is to nail the first timer for gear and leasons. Shops in Hawwaii and the Keys have very little gear for sale. They know you will rent it regular when you go diving, even if only once a month. Email Dive training at divetraing@spc-mag.com

Great places to buy gear online are divers direct and discount divers.they also offer instrucotr discounts.

the smae is bothering me about the expiration of c card garbage. Supported by dive shops to ofset their failing business ability. The industry started regulating itself with Open water certifications and instructor certifications to prevent the government from getting involved. If the shops do not stop,.. we will have to ask the government to step in to restrict the regulations!

You can buy the same gear online, scubapro sells online and in catalogs under the name of TUSA.

I am not asking for the 25 cent airfill to come back, but, perhaps it is time to bring back the traditional dive club. Dive clubs did not start with dive shops putting on a meeting trying to well trips. It begain with a group of divers pooling gear to dive. Perhaps we need to start a dive club and aquire a compressor.

Anyone interested in such a club in the Florida pan handle, please let me know.
The dive flags up and I think i have the bugs out of the outboard, so I amm heading up the Mills Pond run in Marrrianna, I havd to abort the past two days. An aborted trip on the water is better then dreaming of it in a landlocked/Midwest locations

Tanks

Drop me a line, go on a road trip and lets go diving.

Check out Vortex web site, they are about 7 miles from me, they have web cams.

www.vortexspring.com

Kris