The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[CincyBengalsFan]

RichLockyer once bubbled...

Don't blame the customers and don't blame the internet. Blame the dive equipment manufacturers who allow/force there to be such a large difference in dealer cost. The manufacturers don't care about the LDS, they just want to move product in high volumes, and they reward high volume dealers with better prices.

Out here on the west coast, we have a company commonly referred to as "Evil Empire"... it is a sporting goods store chain... a literal Wal-Mart of athletics. They have a scuba department.
They have a few really good instructors. They have a lot of really bad instructors.

Their prices completely blow away the other LDS, and in many cases, they are competitive with online sources. I generally won't go online for anything under $100 since it isn't worth it once you add shipping. I bought a UK D8 light from LeisurePro and after shipping it ended up costing me $5 more than "Evil Empire", and I had to wait for it to arrive.

It's a free market, and customers will shop where they can get the best value. To do otherwise would be foolish.
I've heard the "life support equipment" comment over and over, but there's no difference between an Apeks reg purchased from Leisure Pro and one purchased from "Evil Empire" and one purchased from Joe's Local Dive Shop except the price and the dubious "lifetime free parts" offer.

Even the lifetime free parts isn't worth it. Many manufacturers are backing off of the annual rebuild and going to annual inspection with rebuild every two years, or when needed.
When needed? I'm going to spend $100 in inspections before I actually need a rebuild. I could take it in myself and pay for parts and labor every two years and break even.


When my buddy and I were looking at HP120 tanks, we wanted to buy a total of 6. "Evil Empire" had them priced at about $300. Normal price. Every day price. Joe Diver walks in off the street and buys it at that price.
I called Tom at PST, and while they refused to sell direct, even for a quantity of 6, he referred me to another LDS and said that "Bob" would make me a good deal.
I called this shop, and he would be more than happy to sell me SIX tanks at $375 EACH!
I told him that I could walk into "Evil Empire" and buy one with no haggling at $300 and asked again if he could do better. He told me to buy them from "Evil Empire".

Where was the problem with the tank purchase? Was PST's price that much higher to the LDS or was "Bob" simply unwilling to cut his margin? I know for a fact that, at that time, "Evil Empire's" cost on those tanks was $220. "Bob" could have sold us those 6 tanks for $290 and still made $420 clear profit on the deal (and a cash sale at that), IF his cost from PST was the same as the chain store.

Hey, I can blame who I want. If you got into SCUBA to save money. You got into the wrong sport. But if a particular dive shop won't work with the customer then that's different. Most dive shops will work with the customer. I know this for a fact.

 

[ScubaJeep]

Most dive shops will work with the customer.

Most dive shops aren't going under...

 

[RichLockyer]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
If you got into SCUBA to save money. You got into the wrong sport.

Do you buy milk and bread from 7-11 instead of the supermarket, even though it's twice the price?
Do you buy oil from the gas station instead of the auto parts store?
Do you buy gas from the most expensive station in town just because you like the owner?

Blame whoever you want, but the problem is with the primary suppliers, not the customers, and in most cases, not the LDS.
I won't expect an LDS to beat "Evil Empire" because I know that his cost is significantly higher.

That still doesn't mean that I'm going to spend 50% more for the same product with the same warranty. When there's a difference in the product itself, then it's not about saving money. Only Toyota parts go into my Toyotas, and I buy them from the dealer.

There's a difference between SAVING money and WASTING money. Sure, scuba is an expensive sport, but it's stupid to intentionally make it more expensive.

 

[5615mike]

Hey, I can blame who I want. If you got into SCUBA to save money. You got into the wrong sport. But if a particular dive shop won't work with the customer then that's different. Most dive shops will work with the customer. I know this for a fact.

Cinci,

You sure seem to know a lot......or maybe everything I'm not quite sure. In the last year we have had two of the four........that's half if your not paying attention, of the shops in this town go OOB.

I didn't get into scuba to save money but I didn't get into it to pay almost double from an LDS than on line. If you have an LDS that works with you ON THE GEAR YOU WANT then by all means your fortunate. Not all of us are so lucky. Don't continue to use that broad brush you paint with to chastise ALL of us who purchase on line. Your making an ass out of yourself. With so many LDS's going OOB the few shops that remain don't necessarily carry the products we may want.

Get over it and move on to another soap box. This issue has been debated to death. The negitivity caused by it is a complete waste of time.

Richlockyer -- well said

 

[USMC Diver]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...


I hate to hear this for you. But what can you expect with everyone telling everyone about the internet and people all over this board telling people to buy buy buy on-line, etc.

It's ashame that people think so little of themselves that they will buy lifesupport equipment at the cheapest possibly price from someone they have never met and have no idea what type of shape it really is in. These same people preach safety first.....

:blahblah:


I don't have enough money to make my LDS owner fat and happy (even though most LDS owners around here are portly).

The gear I purchase is for me. It is to make ME happy, not him. Sure, if you buy gear online, you have never seen the seller and cannot look at the specific piece of equipment. So what?

If you buy a regulator at the dive shop you don't get the one you looked at hanging on the rack (usually), you get the one out of the back. Just for argument sake; the LDS is OBVOIUSLY out for money. What makes him so special that he won't shiest the buyer too? He could very easily go in the back and take a rebuild and sell it to a newbie as new and the buyer would never know. The same thing you are saying happens ALL the time online. There is risk in every purchase.

When I purchase on line I get a lifetime warrenty from the manufacturer. I can get it serviced in any LDS in the nation. Show me an LDS that won't service my equipment for annual checks and I will show you the LDS that started this thread.

LDS's are overpriced and, IMO, stingy with everything. For instance, I brought four new OW students to the LDS for classes. I do this every two or three months. Do I get anything out of it? NO. (except 50 bucks from PADI for referral credit). What is worse is that the LDS insist on getting the class money from the students, including rental fee, then they turn around and make them buy a weight belt. Not included in rental, is what they say.. How stingy is that. C'mon now. They are just out for the buck. They sell PIC cards for 25 dollers when they are 13 online direct from PADI. Just making a buck. If I pay 200 dollers or so for a dive class, why do I still have to pay for AIR? PIC CARD? OUT TO MAKE A BUCK:nono:

I have purchased every piece of dive equipment (except mask) online. I will continue to do so, as I receive the best price online, I get better service, and I get a warrenty. If the gear doesn't work right, (since it is mandatory, for me, to check any life support equipment through a safety inspection and a live test in controlled evironment) I return it. Any reputable online buisness will allow this. They have to to survive, most online buisness's are supported via word of mouth. Even EBAY has a way to measure the "reputation" of those you purchase from.

As for safety, your damn right safety comes first. What does buying equipment online have to do with safety? Your saying that if you bought a reg from the LDS you would take it to 130fsw the first time you tried it BECAUSE you bought it from a Dive shop? Your saying you wouldn't opcheck your new gear beacuase you know and trust the LDS owner? C'mon now. That would be stupid, as would taking a Internet purchased regulator on a dive with out checking it first. Try taking the internet reg to the local pool or to a 10 foot OW dive with a back up air source. That is what I do with new gear. What do you do that makes LDS purchased gear so much safer then online purchased gear?

Do your research before you make blanket accusations:fury:. Not all people that dive derive their entire social circle from the LDS, or feel in some way guilty because I didn't buy my gear from the fat rich guy with the 300% mark-up. I like the guy but not enough to make him rich and me poor.

Buy your gear from whomever makes you happy. I will.

 

[nauifins73]

I/we (my husband and I) had a small gas station in our very small Ks town. For one grade of gasoline; we had only 500 gallons of storage. We paid our bulk dealer more than Casey's sold it for. But you know in the middle of the night if the Fire Truck or ambulance or just about anyone needed gas we got a call. We were there to fill them up. Doubt if the manager of Casey's did that.

You know I feel my LDS is there for me too - and that is worth a lot. Not just equipment but information, help, friendship. Based on my knowledge of retail sales I proudly support my LDS. And I guess I waste my money but I know that when I'm talking to someone at the Shop they care, and not just someone putting in hours for a paycheck.

Just my 2 psi.

Becky

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

RichLockyer once bubbled...

Do you buy milk and bread from 7-11 instead of the supermarket, even though it's twice the price?
Do you buy oil from the gas station instead of the auto parts store?
Do you buy gas from the most expensive station in town just because you like the owner?

Brilliant, just brilliant. How many different LDS do most cities have? Usually very few if not just 1.

How can you compare places you buy milk and fuel to SCUBA gear purchasing?

Well, on that note, never mind. I don't want to know.

But, you could compare other hobbies like outdoor adventure stores vs. the internet or Wal-Mart or maybe a Hobby store vs. catalog sales or the internet. I'm halfway into R/C. I dont' purchase my toys on line or over a catalog. I go to the local guy at the local hobby store. I'm into camping and hiking. I don't purchase thru a catalog or on the internet. I go to the local camping and outdoor adventure store. I bet some of you even Blame Pres. Bush for your finicial troubles don't you?

You guys can blame whoever you want. It comes down to the person that wants to save money over the LDS. And LDS owners are not fat cats. They maybe HUGE in physical size or something but I promise you there not making 6 figures a yr. if that's what you guys think.

Good luck with your adventures.

Dive shops need to make about a 57% profit margin to keep the doors open. There not trying to "rip" you off. They just want to eat and support a family at the end of the night. There not trying to get RICH and rape you on every purchase.

I still feel sorry for the guy in NC who has lost his LDS. I'm sorry you guys do not feel this way.

 

[USMC Diver]

It is Darwins theory in full effect.

Survival of the Fittest

Only this time as it affects the LDS in an battle of economic evolution.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

5615mike once bubbled...

Get over it and move on to another soap box. This issue has been debated to death. The negitivity caused by it is a complete waste of time.

Richlockyer -- well said

I just put in my 2 psi. Sorry to hit such a sore spot with you. LMAO.

LMAO LMAO STILL.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

USMC Diver once bubbled...
It is Darwins theory in full effect.

Survival of the Fittest

Only this time as it affects the LDS in an battle of economic evolution.

That's exactly put. People wonder where their money goes when the spend it on line or thru a catalog. The money has officailly left your local economy. It went to the fat cats.

Have you guys seen BestScubaPrices on Ebay yet??? Send your money to my local economy...