The Halcyon Eclipse single tank wing

[MikeFerrara]

PS: to those who keep harping on "This guy doesn't know what he's talking about:" I suspect as a reviewer for a dive magazine (and not just Bob's Localy Underfunded Divers either) he's had the opportunity to try exponentially more BC systems than you ever have.

Well here he proves that he doesn't know what he's talking about...

The press release supplied with the Eclipse made great play of the internal drainage system for excess water. I guess it meant the lower dump valve.
Well, you will need to dump water out of this after a dive, because the only way to dump air from the wing on ascent is to raise the corrugated hose and let it out through the manual inflation valve. This, of course, lets water back in the other way.

The rear dump valve is not a water drainage system. A bc or wing that uses an outer bad and an inner bladder will have water in the outer bag after a dive because that outer bag isn't water tight. If the water can't drain out quickly when you exit the water (as is the case with some wings) you exit the water very heavy.

Water can enter the wing when dumping through the inflator if there's no air in the wing to come out. I suppose we all let a little in here and there but this is a technique issue.

It's off topic a little but ascending in a vertical position is, as far as I can tell, a "hold over" from the days before bc's when you were negative at depth (due to suit compression) and had to swim up. The Halcyon wing is designed with a horizontal ascent in mind. The reason is because it's in the horizontal position that you have the greatest control over movement in ALL directions. This allows you to remain a constant distance from your buddy (by finning foreward or backward as required) and puts you in a position to get to him with just a flip of your fins and no other movement or jockying around. This is important because ascents and descents are two of the most likely times during the dive for some one to have a problem that requires quick action. This isn't taught in many classes and I can't think of a text book that contains this information but it is true. Dynamic portions of the dive are when problems happen and that's when you need to be alert and ready to respond.

You see it really doesn't matter how many bc's he's had the chance to try if he doesn't know how to use them.

One of the big problems with periodicals is that the unknowing get the idea that the writers know something because they're published.

 

[turnerjd]

Mike,

I have to say that I don't agree with you at all. If your wing / BCD is inflated at the surface, (Now, don't tell me that DIR teaches you to surface, and not put air in your wings to help you stay at the surface) then the inner bladder will physically push the water out from between the two as you fill it with air.

From my POV, this "internal drainage system" is pure marketing crap from halcyon. If it really was a problem, then the same problem would exist putting air in the bladder underwater..... have to push out the water from between the bag and bladder. A non issue for me.

Jon T

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike,

I have to say that I don't agree with you at all. If your wing / BCD is inflated at the surface, (Now, don't tell me that DIR teaches you to surface, and not put air in your wings to help you stay at the surface) then the inner bladder will physically push the water out from between the two as you fill it with air.

Well if you need much air in the wing to stay at the surface, especially at the end of a dive, you are over weighted. But yes, if you fully inflate the wing it will help force water.

From my POV, this "internal drainage system" is pure marketing crap from halcyon. If it really was a problem, then the same problem would exist putting air in the bladder underwater..... have to push out the water from between the bag and bladder. A non issue for me.

Jon T

How much air do you have in your bc when diving? Even when wearing double 104's and several other tanks my wing is nowhere near full and that outer bag will have water in it when I leave the water.

 

[turnerjd]

Well if you need much air in the wing to stay at the surface, especially at the end of a dive, you are over weighted. But yes, if you fully inflate the wing it will help force water.

How much air do you have in your bc when diving? Even when wearing double 104's and several other tanks my wing is nowhere near full and that outer bag will have water in it when I leave the water.

Mike

Double Steel 12L tanks.... over 8Lbs of difference between empty and full, so I always start with some air somewhere, usually enough in a drysuit to prevent squeeze, then a small amount in the wings to make up the necessary, although never anywhere near full, certainly less than 1/3 full at the start, and pretty damn empty (whilst underwater) at the end.

As for the surface at the end, that depends. If I am diving from a RIB and they are coming to get me, I will inflate to nearly full as this gives me a nice position (head-up) and my face nice and clear of the surface. This is purely a personal preference, I could inflate them far less, and not suffer.

If I am diving from a hardboat, then I will (firstly try and make sure that I surface next to the boat) get out with only a small extra amount of air in my wings. Doing this I have never noticed water staying between the bag and bladder (Buddy wings), nor noticed getting out of the water "heavy" (that's not to say that climbing up a ladder in a drysuit with twin steel 12's plus weightbelt I don't feel really quite "heavy"!)

Jon T

 

[chrpai]

Well if you need much air in the wing to stay at the surface, especially at the end of a dive, you are over weighted. But yes, if you fully inflate the wing it will help force water.

How much air do you have in your bc when diving? Even when wearing double 104's and several other tanks my wing is nowhere near full and that outer bag will have water in it when I leave the water.

Mike-

You mentioned verticle "hold-over" ... I was taught one of the advantages of verticle ascent is to keep an eye out for surface traffic ( boats ).

Also while I do service with my little if any air in my BC, once at the surface I've been taught to inflate my BCD as a safety aid ( especially in choppy water ) ..... I understand with back inflate vs jacket that can be a problem, but don't forget these are many of the things a typical rec diver is going to be thinking when evaluating a BP/W. Don't assume everyone has read the DIR playbook.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike-

You mentioned verticle "hold-over" ... I was taught one of the advantages of verticle ascent is to keep an eye out for surface traffic ( boats ).

Certainly as we approach the surface we may need to look where we're going. That may or may not (usually not) require that you go vertical. Until we get there though our immediate concern is controling ascent speed, position and maintaining awareness of our buddy and being prepared to respond.

Also while I do service with my little if any air in my BC, once at the surface I've been taught to inflate my BCD as a safety aid ( especially in choppy water ) ..... I understand with back inflate vs jacket that can be a problem, but don't forget these are many of the things a typical rec diver is going to be thinking when evaluating a BP/W. Don't assume everyone has read the DIR playbook.

Of course inflate to whatever level you need to comfortable. In choppy water while wiating my turn at the ladder I prefer to hang just below the surface. I can still see what's going on at the ladder and I don't get beat up as much.

If you're balance a ing presents no proble when inflated at the surface.

The points that I mentioned don't have anythihng to do with DIR since I'm not. I certainly agree with them on many points but I'm not GUE trained and in no way fly a DIR flag. LOL

 

[jonnythan]

I think the dude was (as he usually is) spot on in his review. It wasn't a review of DIR diving, it was a review of how the Eclipse translates into traditional modern rec diving. He was completely correct in just about everything he said.

If you're DIR, you don't care what he says anyway.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Don't assume everyone has read the DIR playbook.

They have a playbook now? Sweet...maybe I'll read it one day...nah...I don't like reading much.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike

If I am diving from a hardboat, then I will (firstly try and make sure that I surface next to the boat) get out with only a small extra amount of air in my wings. Doing this I have never noticed water staying between the bag and bladder (Buddy wings), nor noticed getting out of the water "heavy" (that's not to say that climbing up a ladder in a drysuit with twin steel 12's plus weightbelt I don't feel really quite "heavy"!)

Jon T

When I get out of the water you can just watch the water run out. I've also noticed the way it floods the back of my truck. LOL

In any case my point was that the author thought the rear dump was the drainage system and it's not. Whether the special super duper Halcyon drainage system is or isn't a must have, this guy thought the rear dump was for draining water.

Take a look at the bottom of your wing. Some have gromet holes and I think some even have "mesh". Some drain better than others. I haven't seen the new Halcyon or the literature but this would be the drainage system they're talking about.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think the dude was (as he usually is) spot on in his review. It wasn't a review of DIR diving, it was a review of how the Eclipse translates into traditional modern rec diving. He was completely correct in just about everything he said.

If you're DIR, you don't care what he says anyway.

A valid point of view but we don't all share it. But that might be because I can find the string on the pull dump while wearing heavy dry gloves without a button on the end of it. The fact that the string is always in the center of the valve makes it easy. LOL

It's ok that he likes buttons but I pull them off of wings that have them. If the wing comes without it that saves me the trouble.