The Halcyon Eclipse single tank wing

[ElectricZombie]

Wrong on multiple accounts. First, head to your local Halcyon peddler and order an RB80, and you will see that for certain products Halcyon has and takes the responsibility to make sure the buyer is qualified, as that Halcyon product does require special operating procedures.

A rebreather and a wing are two vastly different things...

Add-ited: Why are you a NAUI rather than a GUE instructor?

I guess because I didn't know any better at the time.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Ouch! And you were doing so well thus far, with such a reasoned debate there. And then it's implied that the guy is a pink-snorkel-and-cattle-boat type of diver. He's not. Of course, I'm equally guilty of the same deliberately provocative statements sometimes, so I'm not going to cast any stones here ...

I'll take the stones for that one. It was pure sarcasm and not relevant or fair to the arguement.

 

[fins wake]

... as regards NAUI and GUE instructorship, and assuming that it were just a simple question of walking into the latter agency from the former in an instructing capacity:

I guess because I didn't know any better at the time.

I'm curious. Is there any reason why GUE should be "better" than NAUI? Particularly given the seemingly converging paths of both agencies lately? Or is it just a question of "prestige" or politics?

Not an incitement to troll and flame, but I'm genuinely curious. (If somebody wants to split the thread at this point and continue this one elsewhere, that's understandable and okay.)

 

[MikeS]

IMO this was a terrible review. If in fact it was meant to be open minded why was it necessary to postulate about “the mark of the devil;” in fact why include a discussion of DIR at all? Why did he feel it necessary or appropriate to indicate that his “opinion may be heretical to the devoted followers of DIR?”

The author clearly does not know what a rear dump is. This is nothing unique to Halcyon; my Seaquest Balance has a rear dump. I learned what it was for in the pool during OW class. He did mention of few of the benefits and potential disadvantages but missed many more important ones.

 

[fins wake]

If in fact it was meant to be open minded why was it necessary to postulate about “the mark of the devil;” in fact why include a discussion of DIR at all?

Because, and I'll try to put this mildly, Halcyon is intimately associated with DIR and DIR is very controversial, at least over here in Europe. Many love it, some like it, many hate it and some are indifferent. The latter category is the smallest one.

Why did he feel it necessary or appropriate to indicate that his “opinion may be heretical to the devoted followers of DIR?”

I would have thought a quick browse just through this very thread would be ample proof of that ...

I agree with your point about the SeaQuest, the rear dump and OW class. I use it on my Mares too ...

 

[chrpai]

I agree with your point about the SeaQuest, the rear dump and OW class. I use it on my Mares too ...

I never put a rear dump on my SeaQuest. The only times I ever used one was on a rental. I didn't like how quickly it dumped air.

Funny thing is I used to think I needed one. Before I got my weighting down and learned how to get all the air out of my BC, I thought a dump would be my solution to having a hard time getting down.

 

[d33ps1x]

Thats because they have client base has been a group that has already been introduced to this concept and agrees with it. The point was how do they increase their marketshare to a larger audience who doesn't nessecarily think this way?

I guess it was. I might have to pick up their brochure and have a less casual look at how they market this approach to divers unaware of the details of the system. I would imagine it would be done primarily through dive centers just like a lot of other manufactures rely on.

I think Halcyon has DIR plastered enough on their brochures and website that anyone who really wants to find out about it will find the GUE website as well and make their own informed decision as to whether they would like to pursue the system or not.

 

[caveseeker7]

A rebreather and a wing are two vastly different things...

That's odd, somebody told me the same thing the other day ... .
Actually, Jonathan, I'm aware of that. They are however both Halcyon products and your generalization was just too inviting.

I guess because I didn't know any better at the time.

Now that's a very good reason. And it makes me wonder about having to teach one thing while knowing and diving something else. But that should be another thread.
Just consider this: John Bantin obviously didn't know any better at the time he wrote the article, either. And, unless he followed this enlightening thread, probably still doesn't.
He took CCR traininng on the Inspiration in several years ago and reported back in the magazine. Maybe he'll take a Fundamentals course some day and does the same, who knows. There's always hope.

 

[ElectricZombie]

Now that's a very good reason. And it makes me wonder about having to teach one thing while knowing and diving something else. But that should be another thread.

With NAUI you can teach DIR skills...different thread though.

Just consider this: John Bantin obviously didn't know any better at the time he wrote the article, either. And, unless he followed this enlightening thread, probably still doesn't.
He took CCR traininng on the Inspiration in several years ago and reported back in the magazine. Maybe he'll take a Fundamentals course some day and does the same, who knows. There's always hope.

I see your point. However, since his review has the potential to reach thousands of divers, I think that he should have taken more time to become familiar with the BC. Some of his comments such as the one about how you can only dump via the left shoulder inflator/deflator show that a lot of the problems he cited were the result of his technique and not the BC. Overall, he should have done a bit more research and worked on the skills he was not familiar with before posting a review.

 

[caveseeker7]

With NAUI you can teach DIR skills...different thread though.

Glad to hear for both you and your students.

... since his review has the potential to reach thousands of divers, I think that he should have taken more time to become familiar with the BC. Some of his comments ... show that a lot of the problems he cited were the result of his technique and not the BC. Overall, he should have done a bit more research and worked on the skills he was not familiar with before posting a review.

I agree. Maybe he didn't even know he was lacking skills until he tried it. Remember, is is a long time and experienced diver. Relearning skills and undoing bad habits isn't easy, and can be a humbling and frustrating experience. Maybe he will, maybe he, like so many others, are fine with how they're diving. If memory serves me right, JJ himself wrote on this board that neither Halcyon nor DIR are for everyone.

As for the disribution of the article (and it's huge), I agree to some extend. But the local Hacyon guru is aware of that, too, and should have made sure that Bantin is aware of the design reasons, DIR needs, and maybe some pointers of how to use it.