The Mis-Adventures of my AOW class- READ!

[Wendy]

But I agree with the other guys that posted. You don't need a pony bottle on dives deeper than 60'. It seems to me that by carrying a pony you are saying it is ok to run low on air, cuz hey look, i have a pony bottle to save me. If you stick to your plan your dive, dive your plan rule, then you shouldn't be running out of air, and when you plan your dives you take into consideration emergency situations and factor that air you will need in your turn times. When you get ready to surface you need to have enough air in your tank for possibly both yourself and your buddy to surface on.

Also when you were on your safety stop and you ran out of air, I would have done it differently. If when I'm on a safety stop and I am low on air I give the low on air sign and ask for air from my buddy (who is always by me no more than one breath away). This way I can do my safety stop with their air and when I get to the surface I still have air in my tank that I can breath in case I need to swim around the boat or don't feel like using my snorkel.

Personally I don't think that you had enough dives to do AOW. Especially diving in conditions that you weren't use to. While I understand that different folks prgoress at different levels and some folks are naturals in the water, while others aren't, I see nothing wrong with setting a dive # requirement, something like 25 dives passed ow before you can do AOW.

JamesK is right about the tanks, if they were HP steels the first week you would have gotten the 3500 fill, but if you got LP tanks on your deep dives then the rated pressure for them is @ 2640psi (although they have been known to get overfilled). I got a 2700psi fill on an Al80 once and it ended up being that the tank neck o-ring was leaking, so they had actually filled it to over 3000psi, but by the time I was ready to dive it had leaked out a couple hundred psi.

Laslty it seems that you didn't get a whole lot of the class. Are you planning on taking it again, maybe with a different instructor?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Don't dive with instructors who have no clue. No student should ever run out of air. I just spent the weekend watching instructors who shouldn't be diving and they sure shouldn't be teaching. My wife had to stop me from getting personal with one idiot who was doing his best to kill all his students. Your deep and wreck dive should teach gas management. Do your homework when picking an instructor. Yesterday I had a student on a dive for a Advanced Nitrox class. We were tooling along at about 115 with a planned max depth of 120. I in doubles with a deco bottle, the student in a single 120 with H-valve and deco bottle. We were heading back to our entry point. We began our ascent away from the line becouse the student was going to deploy a lift bag and we didn't want the bag rising into anyone who might be entering the water. I noticed two divers on another line below us who appeared to be acting strangly. I watched as my student deployed the bag. It appeared to be an instructor with a student on a deep dive. The two looked like spiders climbing up the rope hand over hand. They had no business there. They were not equiped for it. The skills of both sucked. I could tell story after story. You should have seen what I saw Saturday. It was worse!

 

[JamesK]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
You should have seen what I saw Saturday. It was worse!

Do tell! Do tell!!!!! You can not just tease us like that.

 

[Blargh]

LOL !!! maybe in a thread of its own ?

Originally posted by JamesK


Do tell! Do tell!!!!! You can not just tease us like that.

And MichaelG - that fatigue and all yer feeling *is* subclinical DCS

 

[MikeS]

MichaelG,

Get a new instructor! I would never take a class with an instructor that left a student alone with less than 1000 psi in a new situation especially on deep dives. I also think that any Instructor, of any recreational course, that allows a student to run out of air without being right there, not only should loose their C-card but should be taken out back and shot. Your post makes me appreciate my instructor even more.

On another note, and I hope this doesn’t sound too harsh; you need to take responsibility for yourself! It’s up to you to manage your air. I don’t have much more experience than you but I never totally rely on any instructor. AOW is “advanced,” and air management is a basic skill.

Mike

 

[Northeastwrecks]

I agree with the other members of this Board who have pointed out the instructor's and your buddies' deficiencies.

In the future, however, you should plan your gas management a little differently and much more conservatively.

IMHO, your OOA was the predictable result of a late turn.

Whenever I dive, particularly on a deep water wreck, I use the Rule of Thirds. My buddies do the same.

Under the Rule of Thirds, you should have called the turn at about 1950 psi, calculated as follows:

Starting Pressure: 2700 psi
Desired End Pressure 500 psi
Available Gas 2200 psi

You use 1/3 of your Available Gas for descent and travel to the turn, 1/3 for the return and ascent and one third for emergencies.

1/3 of your available gas is 733 psi. Thus, your turn should have been executed at about 1950 (2700-733 = 1,967). You would have had another 733 to go through your return and safety stops.

I realize that this leaves you with 733 in emergency reserve. You should consider that final 1/3 as your buddy's air. It is there in case your buddy needs it. Similarly, the final 1/3 in your buddy's tank is yours. This allows you and your buddy to safely return from the farthest point on your dive while sharing air the entire way (you would use your 1/3 for return and ascent, while your buddy used the other 1/3).

The final 500 psi is "for the boat" as you don't want to surface with 0 psi (At a mimimum, it is not good for the tank and is worse for you).

On your deep dive, you called the turn at 1000 psi. You had therefore used about 1700 psi and were into your emergency reserve. I'm not surprised that you ran out because using the same amount of gas to return would have required another 1700 psi and you had 1000 psi.

On your wreck dive, you called the turn at 1500. At that point you had used 1200 psi and were, therefore, well into the gas allocated for your return. In a perfect world, using another 1200 psi to return and ascend would have put you on the surface with about 300 psi. You left no room for emergencies. Your buddy did the same thing.

Finally, why would you think that your first dive would be shorter and at shallower depth? You should plan your deeper, longer dives first. This should have been covered during OW class.

I am not berating you. I pushed my gas supply when I was a new diver. I learned my lesson after a 200 yard surface swim in five foot waves with a completely empty tank (I did my safety stops hanging off a lift bag).

It sucks to call a dive early because you are have hit what may seem to be an arbitrary number. However, it sucks worse to win a chamber ride.

As for the night dive, did you have at least two lights and a strobe? We wear strobes so that we can track each other and HID lights so that we can see. I can't remember the manufacturer of the strobes, but these things are incredible. They can be seen at a fair distance even when vis is not great. The lights are either UK Light Cannons or Halcyon Extreme Exposure can lights.

 

[JamesK]

Originally posted by Northeastwrecks
As for the night dive, did you have lights and strobes? We wear strobes so that we can track each other and HID lights so that we can see. I can't remember the manufacturer of the strobes, but these things are incredible. They can be seen at a fair distance even when vis is not great. The lights are either UK Light Cannons or Halcyon Extreme Exposure can lights.

Not to disagree with you, but don't you feel your HID's are too bright for a night dive? I guess if you have poor vis it might help out. But with good vis, I find them too bright and the "creatures" kinda scurry away quicker. It could be my inagination though. I always save the HID for the caves, and use my backup lights for night dives. Do you feel the strobes work good for tracking buddies? I have always found the blinking to be annoying, and prefer just a constant on light of some sort. We usually hang strobes off the boat or dock to find our way back.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Ok. I planned on telling but I had to go do something. We were at gilboa to do Advanced nitrox dives with one of our DM's who is an incredible help to us. As we were dropping our deco bottles on a line off the dock, for pickup once we were in the water, I couldn't help but nitice a OW class just starting a dive. There was an instructor (thats one word for it) another, I assume was a DM and several students. The first thing I noticed was all the dangling equipment. Not one student had counsol or alternate secured. This was easily seen because they were walking around the dock with fins on waiting for their turn to giant stride in. BTW fins are no good for walking or jogging. The DM, I noticed, had his alt. in his bc pocket. Now, my rig is gogarthian and that is what I teach. However, lots of divers have not discovered this yet and I won't condemn one for that. But, the standards of all agencies, as far as I know, dictate streamlined and secured equipment. The instructor directed each student to hold their instruments while entering. This seemed like a waist of time since the alternates, on alternate length hoses, were swinging in the breeze. One in there was some talk about how much weight should be used, however, no buoyancy checks of any kind were conducted. One student decided he was too heavy and surfaced. He asked how much weight he should remove. The answer was one or two weights (or something like that). He asked the instructor if he could take the discarded weight. The instructor then stuck the discarded 5 pounder in his pocket. I wonder if it later fell out on someone's head. This would help explain this instructors strange technique in the water. Another, rather large student, was way too light and with all the air out of his bc floated about chest high. He is fighting to get down. But...wait...everyone else is down and gone. The student pulled himself down the stairs that lead into the water. From there he pulled his way down a this loose line that runs to a platform just under the stairs. I know for a fact that without a line for ascent or if he vehtured too shallow this student would eventually make a very rapid ascent. Further up on the dock were some folks that seemed to be family of one or more of the students. I started over to suggest that they get their loved ones out of the water and keep them out until they could find a capable instructor but my wife stopped me. Most classes I see are alot like this one. Sunday morning was to start with a dive on the deep side with my student. Our dive was delayed by an ambulance who was there picking up a diver. This is the second ambulance run this year I have witnessed at gilboa and the fourth total. there was a rather large advanced class taking up the entire entryway. It looked like they had everything they owned staged on the dock. They all looked like an advertisement for the latest in zippered pockets and D-rings and all the useless junk that can be hung from them. We waited for them to get out of the water before we went in. I do not want to even be in the water with this stuff going on. It may sound cold but...I will not place my student in danger to rescue someone elses student. I am going to put a perment note on my slate that says "I'll be back for your equipment".

BTW, Does anyone know whats up with the giant reels? I saw several divers this weekend swimming around with reels an big around as basketballs. They had them clipped to thing like bc straps so they hung down a foot and a half or so below them. Someone suggested that they were trying to look like cave divers but I am one and I own alot of reels but no monsters like that. And if I did I sure wouldn't carry it in a quarry.

 

[chiara]

With just 8 dives and in very different conditions you simply shouldn't have been on the course.

I hope the symptoms are just out of anxiety instead of a possible DCI case.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

I have used the strobes since I started night diving, so I don't have much with which to compare them. However, I like them as they seem to cut through poor vis fairly well.

Admittedly, my post was less than complete. I use the HID light for wreck dives. When night diving, I descend with it on; however, I will turn it off and go to one of my Scout (backup) lights if vis is good.