The most ridiculously overstaffed Fundies class ever taught . . .

[tbone1004]

some older drysuits have oral inflation nipples on them comparable to that of the ones on SMB's and lift bags, but they are rare and relatively pointless. I was just talking about the standard inflators on all BC's now a days. The Razor you saw was probably the hydration bladder style inflator that has since been replaced with a standard inflator on the Razor wings.

yes, back to Lynne's impressive student instructor ratios and frigid waters...

 

[kr2y5]

This sounds pretty awesome, I wish I was there...

Propulsion techniques are now practiced first in the water without any equipment other than exposure protection.

Just curious, what is the thinking behind doing this first at the surface, as opposed to in-water, or on dry land? I continue to struggle with back-kick myself, so always interested in hearing new ideas...

By the time we finished those exercises, I was shivering uncontrollably,

Is the use of a heated vest permitted during the Fundies class? I know you have one, which makes me wonder... I have been looking forward to using one during my class, since without it, I am positive I definitely won't survive two 60-90 minute dives/day in our frigid waters, and even if I do, I will be just floating around in a mindless stupor, unable to follow the simplest of commands, let alone maintaining any situational awareness.

 

[tbone1004]

regarding propulsion techniques, fins can mask a lot of problems especially with back kicking. If you can go backwards barefoot, then you can go backwards with anything else on your feet, floppy split fins included, the efficiency is obviously very dependent on how good the fins are, but if you can go backwards barefoot you can go backwards in anything, same with flat turns. Your feet are small enough that without near perfect technique you won't very far, so learning how to do it barefoot then transitioning to fins will only make your technique that much better.

 

[Peter Guy]

The primary comment I made to GUE after my Fundies class (2007?) was that the skills/kicks should be introduced in confined water. Nothing I've heard about this class (and as you might expect, I've heard a bit!) has made me change my opinion. The notion of practicing kicks, on the surface, in a dry suit, is, well, apparently a good plan [plain silly. It may be a logistics issue with this class since a Fundies Class I partially observed a couple of years ago had pool sessions. -- These comments are retracted, but left in for continuity with the following post, because Guy Shockey made a very persuasive argument to the contrary.]

For what it's worth, the PADI Distinctive Specialty I authored which is based on Fundies, requires a minimum of two pool sessions where the kicks and skills are introduced. My experience shows this is very helpful.

 

[xdjio]

I am curious to know why you think practicing kicks on the surface in a dry suit is silly?


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[GShockey]

The notion of practicing kicks, on the surface, in a dry suit, is, well, plain silly. It may be a logistics issue with this class since a Fundies Class I partially observed a couple of years ago had pool sessions.

Hi Peter,
I too would like to know why you think it is silly. I do it regularly and have for several years and have had a lot of success with backkick, helicopter turn, frog kick and modified frog kick training. We do it in water you can stand up in and you can coach the student and offer instant feedback. The problem I have always found in a pool was that you had to rely on something like a pool noodle or a float board to give you the necessary buoyancy. A drysuit and undergarment offers this buoyancy very nicely. You could of course wear the same thing in a pool but my BZ400 would get a little warm pretty fast. You pretty much need to be underwater to do flutter kicks due to the position of your fins so you will notice I have not included them in my list above. We work on those in scuba gear.

And for what it's worth, I have a nearly new salt water pool about 7 minutes from my door and use it a lot for other training. My experience has been that it has been inferior in terms of results to using drysuits in a protected ocean bay 2 minutes from my door.....I do the same thing for small classes of 2 students so I can assure you that class size has nothing to do with it. Considering the instructor to student ratio here was better than 1 to 1 today and was 1 to 1 yesterday, class size and logistics has nothing to do with it. It was our choice based on experience and success in teaching students to do all the kicks mentioned above in multiple years of doing it in both situations. I think we have about 3 or 4 people doing back kicks and helicopter turns today that couldn't do them before. Could just be luck I guess..;-)

Best,

Guy

 

[Imla]

regarding propulsion techniques, fins can mask a lot of problems especially with back kicking. If you can go backwards barefoot, then you can go backwards with anything else on your feet, floppy split fins included, .

This is not always true. I am one of those that can swim nearly as fast backwards as forwards in a pool/or on the surface. However... my backkicks with fins... Oh lord!

When I did my Fundies I told my instructor I had never gotten the back kick down. After training in the pool he couldn't believe it at all!
When we finally got to the scuba part, well, lets just say he got to work for his money!

I loved my fundie class. We had 2C, slush in top layers, sunny april weather and lots and lots of fun. After lots of hard work I was happy to get my Fundie-T

 

[kr2y5]

in water you can stand up in and you can coach the student and offer instant feedback.

Apologies for the brief hijack, but could you recommend any writeup on common back kick mistakes, and their symptoms ("if you make mistake X, it causes you to do Y, which is undesirable"). That could be a useful additional source of "instant feedback" for a student, to complement formal instruction.

 

[GShockey]

Apologies for the brief hijack, but could you recommend any writeup on common back kick mistakes, and their symptoms ("if you make mistake X, it causes you to do Y, which is undesirable"). That could be a useful additional source of "instant feedback" for a student, to complement formal instruction.

Sure, email me.

gs@gue.com.

G

 

[Peter Guy]

Guy -- very good points and ones I had not considered. As you noted, without the dry suit, a student needs a kickboard (or such) when in a pool so it makes sense that the dry suit would be a good substitute/alternative.

Also as you noted, the key is the immediate feedback from the instructor that is permitted when this is done in shallow water as you are doing it.

Good job and comments retracted.

And no, having the students doing the back kick and such on day 2(?) was not just luck -- it was the result of having EXCELLENT instructors and instruction.