The old tipping question

[Kiwi303]

3. The restaurant has to be very very good for me to go back a second time. I'd much rather they just increase the prices on the menu and pay their staff better.

Welcome to my world. I've only ever tipped in a restraunt twice, and both times the service was wonderful. the rest of the times I've eaten out the service has been service, food arrived, plates disappeared, but I had to wave the staff over for that to happen. At the good ones, they kept an eye out and when everyone was just chatting over wine without touching what was left on the plates, the plates were whisked away and the next course arrived without any need to bring their attention to it. That level of telepathic service and attention is worth rewarding. Just doing their job should be their bosses responsibility to pay for.

I've only ever seen one place with a tips jar, and not surprisingly that was right near to the Auckland international airport and nearly every diner had an accent of one kind or another.

 

[=C=]

I have some thoughts on tipping. I understand it is the custom but to me it would be more fair to add a gratuity charge to the trip fee. My base tip is 5 bucks a tank (only once I tipped less for horrid service) and often tip more. The problem is the slackers that tip less or not at all. That puts the pressure on the people that do tip. I understand that that would add paper work for the operator and a tax on the tipped crew but I think that would be offset by the overall increase in revenue...

I would not return to a boat with a "required" gratuity. People have good and bad days, on a day when service is crap I should still tip?

Wikipedia A tip (also called a gratuity) is a voluntary extra payment made to certain service sector workers in addition to the advertised price of the transaction. Such payments and their size are a matter of social custom. Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though by definition a tip is never legally required, and its amount is at the discretion of the patron being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected is a serious faux pas, and may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical

 

[k ellis]

I would not return to a boat with a "required" gratuity. People have good and bad days, on a day when service is crap I should still tip?

Wikipedia A tip (also called a gratuity) is a voluntary extra payment made to certain service sector workers in addition to the advertised price of the transaction. Such payments and their size are a matter of social custom. Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though by definition a tip is never legally required, and its amount is at the discretion of the patron being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected is a serious faux pas, and may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical

I could not agree more. People in this country have become to expectant on tips to the point to where they expect to receive one reguardless of whether they did good work or not. Though your definition sums it all up in the best possible manner a tip is not something I should automaticly pay but instead be something that promotes good service from those who serve me in a professional role.

If I knew no matter what I did I was going to receive 7 dollars per tank even if I just sit on the boat and read a book not even caring about the divers why would I want to give excellent service and receive the same amount?

I think someone who works to receive those tips should in all fairness should receive a tip but if I had to carry all my own gear on the boat tanks included, set up my own gear dive without a guide not receive any assistance what so ever getting on the boat, in the water, out of the water and off the boat why would I pay a mandatory gratuity. It should be the dive masters who glaze their eyes and silenty duck off the boat.

 

[Capt Gary]

Tipping in my mind should be based on service rendered. I don't believe or like having my tip included in the price of a service item, as is the case when you go to some restaurants and gratuity is included for parties of 6 or more. And as indicated from a few of you, the 15% gratuity included is usually less than what I would have given, which is usually 20%, if gratuity was not included and the service was good.

Even when I get a local discounts at restaurants, I figure the tip on the original price, not the discounted price, but that's just me, I'm sure that's not the norm.

As for my team, we try our best to provide the best service possible, but don't flout a request for a tip in your face. The tip jar is there on the boat and if you feel you've had a great time and good service then you're gratuity is appreciated.

Sitting on the other side of this, as I once was, it's easy to not notice the work your dive boat crew does for you before you step foot on that boat to hook your gear up or the amount of work that is required after you step off. The next time you go to a dive boat, get there a little early and take the time to watch the crews process of getting the boat ready for your departure. I'll bet a few of them have sweat running off them before the boat leaves. There is a lot that goes on prior to that 8:30AM departure or when the boat gets back to the dock after the first dive and they now must prepare the boat again for the afternoon trip.

From behind the scenes the hard work of loading tanks, unloading tanks, filling tanks, prepping the boat, getting gear for divers, fixing that leaky tank or regulator, cleaning the boat, on watch during a dive and ready to jump in at a moments notice, maintenance on just about everything around the shop, putting in an 11 hour day (sometime 5 to 7 days a week), and still keeping that smile on looking to ensure everyone has a good time, even if they don't get tipped.

Think about this the next time you wonder, "What is service and how much gratuity is it worth"?

Good Diving,

 

[Tom Winters]

I never quite understood the ethos of south Florida divemasters working for free. Once a diver is past a certain level of experience, all they need down here is a ride out to the dive site, and they pay the boat operation a fee to do that. Now some people like a DM in the water with them; others like to have the crew carry and set up their equipment. Sometimes a piece of gear fails and the crew repairs it. For stuff like this, yeah, a tip should be part of the deal.

For this,

... Sitting on the other side of this, as I once was, it's easy to not notice the work your dive boat crew does for you before you step foot on that boat to hook your gear up or the amount of work that is required after you step off. The next time you go to a dive boat, get there a little early and take the time to watch the crews process of getting the boat ready for your departure. I'll bet a few of them have sweat running off them before the boat leaves. There is a lot that goes on prior to that 8:30AM departure or when the boat gets back to the dock after the first dive and they now must prepare the boat again for the afternoon trip.

From behind the scenes the hard work of loading tanks, unloading tanks, filling tanks, prepping the boat, getting gear for divers, fixing that leaky tank or regulator, cleaning the boat, on watch during a dive and ready to jump in at a moments notice, maintenance on just about everything around the shop, putting in an 11 hour day (sometime 5 to 7 days a week), and still keeping that smile on looking to ensure everyone has a good time, even if they don't get tipped.

isn't this part of the price of the boat dive? Maybe things are different in the Keys than they are in Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties - are DM's paid down there in the Keys?

In Hawaii, everyone was paid. There were guys who hustled tips from clients - we had a word for one guy in particular that is a homophone for the word "hoar", and he was great at working the crowd. There was only one boat running out of Waianae Boat Harbor that even had a tip jar. Maybe things have changed there by now and DM's work for free - this I don't know.

So when I dive on a charter boat, I tip if the dives go ok. The slaves gotta eat too. But working for free? That's still lolo to me.

 

[mhedman]

I have to go with Capt. Gary on this one. Most people accept the fact that they will be tipping a waiter 15% to 20% of their bill knowing that the waiter also receives a wage from the restaurant owner. If you applied that percentage to what you paid to get on the boat how much would you be tipping and i would wager that the two bills are about equal? The difference here is that for a two tank dive trip you're talking about 3-4 hours hard labor by the crew and not the 30-60 minutes of attention you get at your table. There is one other point here. At no time during your meal is your waiter responsible for your safety and paying insurance to cover a potential lawsuit.

 

[djtimmy77]

I never quite understood the ethos of south Florida divemasters working for free.

There are certain boats in south Florida where it is obvious the DM's are weekend warriors there for the free dives. Typically they are courteous and do a dive site briefing and carry the flag, but that is about it. On these operations I typically hand over a tip to the crew (if they are helpful) but not the DM. Other boats I frequent have more professional DM's who I don't believe for a second work "free" even though the captain makes that claim. They are there every time I dive with that operator and do a stellar job deserving of a tip, and it is also apparent that is their full time job.

I would have to assume that in Key Largo the DM's fall on the "professional" side and likely get some amount of pay regardless of what the captain says. Putting that aside, they also deserve a tip assuming they do a good job.

 

[Thezeker]

To add a "mandatory gratuity" would not a good way to do that at all as gratuity is a degree of how gracious one is for the services rendered. Now on the other hand a "Service charge" would be a better way to word it as it does not imply that you are deciding in advance how grateful I will be post dive.

I do like to tip myself but I am more in to the non pressure tip approach. I have been on dive trips where it was suddle a tip jar set out and mybe a quick phrase of "Hey we hope you guys enjoyed the dive and if you would like feel free to leave a tip in the jar" and I absolutely love those approaches.

What I do hate now is when they put the jar out and spend 10 minutes telling you how bad the economy is and their kids are about to go into state custody while their wife (or husband) is threatning divorce and the house is about to be foreclosed and the car repoed.

I just hate that america gets the terms gratuity and service charge mixed up. Yes I do agree though a service charge would be an interesting approach to rewarding dive crews who do work hard.

Hmmmmm. I agree with this. Maybe mandatory gratuity was bad wording. A service fee would be more appropriate.

 

[Thezeker]

isn't this part of the price of the boat dive? Maybe things are different in the Keys than they are in Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties - are DM's paid down there in the Keys?

In Hawaii, everyone was paid. There were guys who hustled tips from clients - we had a word for one guy in particular that is a homophone for the word "hoar", and he was great at working the crowd. There was only one boat running out of Waianae Boat Harbor that even had a tip jar. Maybe things have changed there by now and DM's work for free - this I don't know.

So when I dive on a charter boat, I tip if the dives go ok. The slaves gotta eat too. But working for free? That's still lolo to me.

I've often wondered that myself. Why are operators relying on tips to subsidize their payroll. Just add a service fee.

 

[k ellis]

I would be ok with a service fee so long as it was announced prior to the agreement to purchase. Such as I ask how much is a tank to xyz dive site. If there reply was (Example) 169.00 I would expect them to tell me "It will be 169.00 plus a 10 dollar service fee)

I would not be ok with it if they told me it was 169 then when I hand them the credit card and they run it they tell me "Ok here is your receipt for the 169 dollar trip plus the 10 dollar service fee"

I know people work hard to set up a dive boat but lets take this hypothetical. Say you purchase your trip and the person who you paid gave you the instructions to show up at the boat. You get on the boat and load your own gear on the boat. After you have a seat you realize that you dont have a tank so you have to get off the boat and walk up to the dive shop maybe 60 feet away and get your 2 tanks. When you return to the boat you get no help and have to set them up by your self. When you get to the dive site you have also set your own gear up. The dive master gives you a quick very basic dive brief and says get in. Once in you see he is not diving nor is any member of the staff.

As you finish your dive you return to the boat to have to assist yourself again with no help from the dive master back onto the boat. After both dives are the same story you have to break down your own gear and store it in your bag. As you approach the pier the dive master finaly says the only thing he has said happily all day and that is "Hey guys hope you had fun the tip jar is here. I really appreciated you guys coming out and you all were awesome etc....... please dont forget to tip."

As you unload the boat and walk back to your car again no help what so ever. Even though he cold shouldered the WHOLE dive group including you is he still worthy of a tip????

Believe me it may not seem like a real life story but if you ask around long enough you will see this does happen. THIS is why I really dont believe in mandatory gratuities because I may not be grateful after words.

I feel sorry for anyone in the service industry who relies heavily on tips because they have become dependent on them and they are not a guarantee.

I do recall a year or so ago there was a few people who went to a restraunt and had really bad service. When they got the bill there was a mandatory gratuity on the bill that was quiet an impressive amount. Despite the groups reportedly horrible service they claimed not to have seen the waitress once and even had to get up and refill their drinks. When they decided to leave they said they would only pay what was owed on the bill and not the mandatory tip since their was practicly no service. The owner subsequently had the group arrested on charges of theft.

the group in turn retained an attorney and I am not sure what transpired between the attorney of the restraunt and the attorney of the group but in the end based on the advice of the restraunts attorney the restraunt decided not to press charges. This also opened up a big can of worms since now they had the group arrested on charges of theft yet failed to follow through which may very well end up being false arrest.

Gratuities in this country are one of the most misunderstood transactions in american life styles yet at the same time one of the most abused. It comes out in the end though that if you want a good gratuity you should honestly work hard to receive it. If you dont work hard and expect a tip you should really consider a diffrent line of work. Unlike being paid by the hour no matter what you do tipping is a courtesy and not a requirement. Be thankful to those who give you one and remember them when they come back.