The Worse Class In The World!!!!!

[Arnaud]

It's too easy to blame the students.

A non-diver may not know/understand that there are some steps that need to be taken seriously, unless the instructor explains it clearly. If they still don't understand it, the tuition fee should be refunded.

Also, not everyone is comfortable in the water. Everyone needs to be given a chance to improve, but some will never be comfortable. Part of the ow certification requires some basic swimming. If the students can't swim, they shouldn't be certified until they've learned, if they can. Certification is for divers who meet the standards of the agency, not for future coffins!

Finally, I would question the ratio. If you have 8 students who all have obvious difficulty in the water, shouldn't the group have been broken down into 2 or maybe 3 groups? Wouldn't have this been eventually a time saving solution and a better experience for the students?

I have been lucky enough to do all my training 1 on 1. Clearly, it's not always a practical solution for the instructors. But there's no doubt that a low ratio makes for better training, better divers, (and possibly, better consumers )

 

[Redshift]

If they're so bad just don't certify them! They'r paying for instruction, not the card. That they have to eran it. Besides the lack of skills they also show no will to learn or respect for you and the instructor. Tell them they need more practice and schedule more pool sessions. But if their attitude remains say they you can´t teach them any more and flunk them. But be sure the fault isn't also yours to in failing to teach them correctly.

 

[jhelmuth]

Agree with Walter, Redshift and Arnaud...

You and the OWI are more guilty than anyone for these "ugly" divers on these cattle boats and all the problems they cause.
I just went out this morning and everyone of the "divers" on this charter killed some of the reef, executed some serious dive mistakes, and in general were not trained well enough to be out there. Some of them were none to happy that I called them out on their transgretions, but I'm getting tired of this &$!#.
Do us all a favor and get real on these students. If I can do it, so can anyone else who cares. Not everyone is meant to dive and you are the gate-keeper.

 

[Braunbehrens]

Cave Diver once bubbled...


I gotta agree with Walter on this one. After the inital class where there were so many problems, it seems to me that two weekends are not nearly enough to sort this group out. Sounds like they should have been told after the first few hours that they are going to need a lot of additional work, and some additional time should be scheduled.

Pushing people who aren't comfortable from one skill to the next does not bode well for their ability to remember and execute the skill when it's really necessary.

Didn't you read what he wrote? They completed the skill once, no doubt while kneeling at the bottom of the pool, so that satisfies the requirement. They have already paid for their cards, so it's off to the ocean.

Sorry, to be so cynical, but taking a group like this to the ocean is totally negligent, IMO, and a real give away that the standards are too low and are being lowered all the time.

I would quit before I took a group like this to do ocean dives, and I would tell them that they are taking their life in their hands.

To the DM, make them pay you to teach them how to dive, or don't do it. Satisfying a "requirement" means nothing.

 

[diverbrian]

There is not one way that I would take a group like this into open water and any instructor who asked me to help would find me telling him to find an actual instructor instead of a DiveCon. I could see if you split them up, so that the instructor had time to work them a bit one on one, but I would not take this group as exists to the open water.

I will try to touch on the swimming issue. One of our instructors ran into a non-swimmer. The guy was safe enough in pool with a BC on and no one would have known that he was a non-swimmer watching him. So the instructor took him through skills in the pool, but told him that before he signed him off for actual open water (SCUBA II), that he had to take swimming classes. The man did this and is now a safe and avid diver.

In Provo, I was very impressed with one of the younger instructors. She had a doctor in her group that just thought that he knew everything and wouldn't listen to her. She told our dive master (the majority owner and lead instructor of the charter op) that she would not pass this guy and he didn't override her. (I heard about this after the dive day was done while everybody was eating. Provo is a small island after all.) Good for her!

Kiwi, I don't want to be in your shoes. Please keep us posted and hopefully no-one gets hurt. This doesn't sound like a pleasant situation.

 

[GQMedic]

I can spot the problem EASILY!

I see an Instructor and DM that TOTALLY screwed the pooch. Failure to ESTABLISH control of the class, much less maintain it. Failure in time management, there's a big one! Failure to test swim abilities BEFORE finding out they couldn't swim, the HARD WAY!

Lets address the names you've called your students as well. Lets see, "Muppets", "Idiots" and "Monkeys". This is how you refere to the very people I assume you are in an internship for? NICE...

I could soooo nail this post over and over and over. Actually, I'm pretty offended by what you've written. The level of total imcompetance displayed by not only you, but your instructor is staggering.

Now, rather than browbeat you with this, lets turn it around into a POSITIVE. This is an EXAMPLE of WHAT NOT TO LET HAPPEN when YOU are an instructor! Remember this well, and by all means, BE BETTER than the instructor teaching YOU.

A little advice: Swimming abilities? TEST THEM well before you begin skills! Don't just SELL them a class.

Knowlege reviews. Here's a simple rule. "Class, your assignment: READ your text books, fill in the work books, take and PASS the written test or NO OPEN WATER DIVES until such is done. Additional training sessions do to your failure to complete assigned tasks will cost you $65.00 (or MORE, you may up the price) per training session. Fees are not refundable. I agree to TEACH YOU, You agree to prepare to be taught, and then, BE taught. You also agree to be on time, prepared, and complete all assignments. This is SCHOOL after all."

Hey, YOU'RE the DM, LEAD! And never, ever, let such names be uttered of your students again so publically. This is a very small community, and your name in it could very easily be "MUD" after such an incident under your supervision. You could easily turn this event around by remembering this SNAFU and what could have been done differently.

-Dennis

 

[diverbrian]

Medic, thank you for pointing out something else that bothered me! I can think that students are a little slow or nervous, but the derogatory terms that I read will come out in the attitude that they see in the pool. I realize that this may come from being tired, but you will want to try and curb that a bit. This is one bad thing about the marathon sessions that you were running to get them through. After a while, you won't see it, but tempers and attitudes get short and you will see the results in an atmosphere that is not good for teaching or learning.

If need be, they should have been extended out after so long. Our LDS tends to have advantage/disadvantage of having to rent pool space in the community so we can't just stay in the pool for eight hours until everybody "gets it". If they can't do the skills at the end of the required pool sessions, they WILL have to come back because the local community center or "Y" or college where we do the sessions will kick us out when our time is up.

You may want to think about your attitude on this class. I realize that they are "trying" to you, but YOU and YOUR INSTRUCTOR have to attempt to think more professionally on this front. If you can't, you will run into more problems.

 

[GQMedic]

Brian,

On the plus side, I'm sure Kiwi's pondered this over and over. It's a good chance this will be something he will EXCLUDE from his own classes when he's an instructor.

As far as HIS instructor goes, I could only think of one thing to say to him. it falls along the lines of "DUDE! What were you thinking"????

Eh, they both can chalk this up to "Lessons learned" (painfully).

-Dennis

 

[sheck33]

wait a second here, i am confused.
Again, of course i wasnt there so i dont know the details, however how did all of this suddenly turn into the dm's and the instructor's fault? Assuming for a second we are teaching 'adults' here why would an instructor have to threaten them with NO open water dives unless you DO the homework you are told to do there is something wrong here.
Is it too much to expect open water students to do their few knowledge reviews and watch whatever video's they need to watch If they are not motivated enough to do that why did they sign up in the first place.

it makes me wonder whether these students just paid to get a card or actually want to learn something.

while i am sure the DM and the instructor have some issues to work on i find it hard to believe it is just them responsible for the mess this class appeared to be reading the original post.....

 

[Walter]

sheck33,

It's not a matter of threats. No one should go to OW until they are ready and can do so safely.

Quite frankly, these are poor students. OTOH, they were in a poor class taught by a poor staff. Not exactly a good combination.

I agree students are responsible to work responsibly, pay attention and do their best.

Instructors are responsible for making sure their students can swim before starting on pool skills. They are responsible for making sure students have mastered all skills. Mastery does not mean one successful completion.

It is the instructor's fault because he did a poor job of teaching. From what I can see, it looks as if this is SOP for him, but this time the students were not as good as normal, so it took him a little longer to bring them to a higher level on incompetence.