The Worse Class In The World!!!!!

[Groundhog246]

scubaroyster once bubbled...

And for Groundhog, PADI doesn't make LDS teach short weekend courses. They don't prevent it, but they don't require anyone to rush a course through. If there is any rushing people through a course, that's the choice of the LDS and/or instructor.

I am quite aware that PADI doesn't require or even recommend short/weekend courses. It's the fact they allow them or to use your phrase, don't prevent them, that caused my LDS to cease PADI certifications.

 

[neil]

scubaroyster once bubbled...


The skill sets build on each other and mastery of the skills are necessary as the training becomes more complex. What happens if you let them in water too deep to stand up and they accidently flood their mask or spit out the regulator, never having mastered those skills? Sounds like you're the one who is in a rush to pass a student through the skills to get them into the OW dives.

royster,
Oh, dear, MUST we be rude?
I assure you I am in no rush, perhaps you need to listen better. There are very few skills that require necessary intermediate steps. OF COURSE you teach reg clear before recovery. OF COURSE mask clearing comes before mask remove and replace. But if a student can't master the mask removal on CW2, why NOT let them do the fin pivot in CW3? Or cramp removal. Or R/R bc at the surface. IMO, having the flexibility to move on and come back to a skill to remediate, is a more efficient use of time, and in my experience works better than exiling the student to a corner of the pool to work independently with an assistant, while the rest of the class goes on to something else.
Not everything in the PADI order of skills is logical or necessary. Follow standards because you have to, but think for yourself, too.

As to taking student to OW before the waterskills assessment, you were wrong a couple of posts back and you still are. I have an older version of the instructor manual, but in my book it's on page 2-3. Unless I missed one of the many updates to standards, you CAN take 'em. Didn't I say you SHOULDN'T?

your humble servant,
Neil
NAUI IT
PADI MSDT
EIEIO

 

[neil]

Walter once bubbled...
[B
WOW! That's crazy!
[/B]

In my humble but experienced opinion: yes it is!

Neil

 

[scubaroyster]

neil once bubbled...


royster,
As to taking student to OW before the waterskills assessment, you were wrong a couple of posts back and you still are. I have an older version of the instructor manual, but in my book it's on page 2-3. Unless I missed one of the many updates to standards, you CAN take 'em. Didn't I say you SHOULDN'T?

your humble servant,
Neil
NAUI IT
PADI MSDT
EIEIO

My humble apology. I stand corrected! You are exactly correct on the watermanship requirements.

I took mine before getting to go into the ocean on both resort courses before I was certified. I also had to take my swim tests before my OW dives for the OWD course. The course directors that taught my IDC (same ones that co-owned the first LDS I worked for) required it be done this way.

Although based on good judgement, I incorrectly assumed that what the course directors required in sequencing the OW classes were also the standard. It isn't, but I am free to continue to require the swim test before getting anywhere near open water.

 

[neil]

scubaroyster once bubbled...

My humble apology. I stand corrected! You are exactly correct on the watermanship requirements.
I took mine before getting to go into the ocean on both resort courses before I was certified. I also had to take my swim tests before my OW dives for the OWD course. The course directors that taught my IDC (same ones that co-owned the first LDS I worked for) required it be done this way.
Although based on good judgement, I incorrectly assumed that what the course directors required in sequencing the OW classes were also the standard. It isn't, but I am free to continue to require the swim test before getting anywhere near open water.

Royster,
No need to apologise, I just thought you got a little snippy there. I guess I did too.
YOU are, IMO, doing the best thing in requiring the swim before OW. The opinion I most want to impart is that the PADI system, while (at least I think so) inadequate in some respects, is more flexible than many CD's seem to teach in IDC's. This means that YOU can do many things that while not exactly the PADI pattern, are better, reasonable, logical and more up-to-date. It also means you have to have really read and understood the S&P.
Getting back to the subject of this thread, this instructor had absolutely no concept, it seems, of deviating from "the book". He was helpless and his class fell apart. He probably lacked some people skills, too. Maybe he should of put down his cue cards and used his brain. Again, all my opinion, but I sure I'm right .

Peace,
Neil

 

[cold kiwi]

ok im back....sorry for not for not getting back to anyone (on a mountain for aweek)

first of all assumption is the mother of all **** ups and i know that i havnt been here to "back my self up" but most of the criticism on here has been based on asumptions
.....we did teach them to swim...most were just being lazy and actually knew how to swim and EVERY ONE passed the 200m requirement
....we dont roster when there is a open water class or how long it goes for so when you say that 2 weekends is not enough i am in total agreement

but im just a dm and im not about to fight it out with management
so.....O/W to make along story short dive 1 went with out a hitch
accept on guy is a veryvery big man and his weight belt was slipping over his stomach all the time
dive 2 went so well that me and my instuctor couldnt believe we had the same students ..the weight belt was still a problem so we had a talk with him and he was going to look at intergrated weights
day4 dive3/4
cesa's went well good fin pivets and mask clears ...they started to get a bit cold so we went for a swim around and then came back to skills
we just couldnt believe that they were the same students every one of their skills was done perfectly ...the weight intergrated bcd was going like a dream and his diving proved that
dive 4 had some small problems on the mask r&r a lady who was one of the more relaxed divers had a full on panic and TRIED to tiger claw for the surface but was calmed down and she performed the exercise much better and we were confident that she was fine
in the end we certified every one except the lady who freaked and the guy with the weight belt problem
the bigguy is buying an intergrated weight bc next week and then we will give him his cert and we are taking the lady on another dive just for her to proove to us that she is fine and safe

now i didnt read all the posts on here but only 1 p.issed me off the rest of them was my own fault for not explaining enough of the story
but bloody hell to nit pick about my spelling?
get a life <deleted> it was a late night ...hell its late now ive probly got a whole lot more that you can read and write down in your diary about

anyway as it turns out most of them were really good in the o/w
im proud of them and how far they have come in 2 weekends i think this group will be in my memories for along time as the most improved group of divers (although they were still the worst pool sessions i have ever seen)....just went through some of the posts ..a troll cheers guys
if you were to ask the students i would bet that they had a ball ..i know i did. they all said at some point in the future they will come back and do a/ow and want us teach them

but if you want to pick the hell out of this post go for gold.. it will open my eyes up to reality (that not all people on this site are as down to earth and fun as others but are really just out there to make themselves look good)

 

[hargettdds]

I see untrained, unskilled divers in the water that are a danger to themselvs and the people they are around. I think to myself how in the world do they get here? Then I read stories like this one and know why. A quick two day resort type course and blamo you are certified. Right after I hold your hand and help you through these compulsory diving (basic) tests. Now you will be needing a new bc, lets have a look shall we.

I dont care if I pissed you off. Good, you need pissing off. If this thread sticks in your throat great! Maybe you might speak up and save someone's life even if it costs you a silly job.

You might also try not being too thin skinned because everyone gets flammed. That's life.