their AL 80m are lighter????

[Splitlip]

Maybe I can help shed some light here. I do get to dive with quite a few ops in Key Largo. Yes the Spiegel Grove is in KL, yes this is saltwater.

Although the shop hasn't been named, one of the bigger ops recently replaced all of it's tanks. They went from steel tanks to AL80's (S80). Their briefings now include mention of this change so that repeat customers will adjust their lead accordingly. Additionally, there is at least one dive op that uses the neutrally bouyant C80s, and they include this information in their briefings so that customers adjust their lead accordingly as well.

When in doubt, ask the DM for clarification. If the DM isn't able to give you an answer that you understand, have a chat with the Captain. Sometimes hearing an explanation from another person using slightly different wording can clarify the issue for you. Remember that it is their job to get to know each group's experience level so that we can give you the best information to complete a safe fun dive. It is very rare that divers with no salt water experience are taken to this deep wreck. Shallow dive sites are highly recommended for a First salt water experience, before tackling a challenging deep wreck dive - even under direct instructor supervision. These dive boats usually have local instructors aboard with students. We are also happy to help out with questions.

Steel to aluminum makes perfect sense (as does the entire post)

 

[scuubaadoo]

A little clarification. We were travelling the keys for a week so all the diving was salt water, so there was no "transition" from fresh to salt. None of the other shops mentioned and weight differences in their tanks. @ bubble trubble it has been said here often "don't turn off your mind when you strap on a computer" I would also say don't turn off your mind because someone with a "DM" title say to do something that just sounds wrong. Why wrong in warm waters with a 3mm suit and an AL80 tank I dive with 8 pounds. I dive mostly in the Nort East with a dry suit and a steel 120 and use 16 pounds of lead. So how does 14 pounds of lead make sense in Key Largo when all week I was using 8 pounds. Sorry I am not going to follow anyone blindly, my safety in my business first and foremost.

 

[mselenaous]

@ bubble trubble it has been said here often "don't turn off your mind when you strap on a computer" I would also say don't turn off your mind because someone with a "DM" title say to do something that just sounds wrong.

+1
Never turn your brain off. If something doesn't sound right, ask for clarification/verification and go with your training/experience/gut instinct. This industry does have its share of zero-to-hero pros with less dive experience than yours and a few Gilligan's as Mate.
You are ultimately responsible for your dive.

 

[RonFrank]

Mselenaous,

The OP indicated a standard AL80. As she was there and did the dive I assume she is right. Not everyone in the dive industry knows what they are doing though my experience in Key Largo has been good to date. I seem to remember Pete complaining about some idiot who I believe has been fired? Maybe the same guy.....

 

[Bubbletrubble]

A little clarification. We were travelling the keys for a week so all the diving was salt water, so there was no "transition" from fresh to salt. None of the other shops mentioned and weight differences in their tanks. @ bubble trubble it has been said here often "don't turn off your mind when you strap on a computer" I would also say don't turn off your mind because someone with a "DM" title say to do something that just sounds wrong. Why wrong in warm waters with a 3mm suit and an AL80 tank I dive with 8 pounds. I dive mostly in the Nort East with a dry suit and a steel 120 and use 16 pounds of lead. So how does 14 pounds of lead make sense in Key Largo when all week I was using 8 pounds. Sorry I am not going to follow anyone blindly, my safety in my business first and foremost.

@scuubaadoo: I think you're losing sight of something here...
Given the circumstances as described, a much safer course of action would have been to:

1. Ask the DM to clarify his instructions.
2. If clarification wasn't offered, then perform an in-water weight check using the "unknown" tank prior to the next dive.

Failure to do the above things = blindly disregarding the DM's instructions.
You were probably correct in not altering your ballast, but it would have been so easy to determine that for sure.
Why take the risk of being improperly weighted?

That being said, I applaud your confidence in your training and experience.
Being assertive is great...but in this case some could argue that such assertiveness didn't lead to the best course of action.

 

[keyshunter]

Hence the old saying: "If a divemaster's lips are moving----he's lying."

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Sadly, with divemasters, just as with teachers, lawyers, cops, and barbers, there are good ones and there are some that aren't so good. One key to being a good divemaster is not just knowing your stuff, but communicating it clearly. Sadly, there are plenty of really good divemasters that are deficient in that area. Perhaps the better briefing would be like this: "We are diving today with AL80 tanks. If you are used to diving with steel tanks, then you will need about four pounds of additional weight for this dive. Now, are there any questions?" Then, if you have a question, ask it. I would always not only allow but encourage a pre-descent weight check. I would also, as divemaster, check equipment, diver size, and weight and have an individual reaction to what they were carrying for weight. As a dive boat patron, I always inquire as to type and size of tanks to be provided by the boat, and, call me anal, I do read the markings to confirm, for me and my dive buddy/wife. I take no offense to the comments that suggest you should not take everything a divemaster says at face value. But to know when the DM may be off base, you need to know your equipment, your dive theroy, and the local conditions. So Let us all be knowledgeable divers, active divers, polite divers, and responsible for our own safety. If the DM is vague, get clarification. If they make an error, correct them if you know they made an error. Divemasters who know what they are doing will be grateful. Those who take offense are in the wrong business.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Mossman]

On the other hand, is being 6 lbs overweighted truly a safety hazard? If it's too much weight on the first dive, take the weight out for the second and any subsequent dives and loudly proclaim to the others that the DM was wrong (thereby impacting any tips he might have been eyeing). This thread has gotten too much mileage IMO. It's not as if the DM did something truly evil such as puff up a pufferfish, smoke, or pee off the stern

 

[Bubbletrubble]

On the other hand, is being 6 lbs overweighted truly a safety hazard?

For an experienced diver, being 6 lbs. overweight should be easily manageable.

For an inexperienced diver, fresh out of basic OW class, who may already be overweighted and might not have great buoyancy control...that's another story.

 

[Reef_Haven]

Ocean Divers has two boats. The green boat has (or had, if this is the op Mselenaous was referring to) LP steel 80's and the white boat has AL80's. If this was the Op referenced, the DM may have simply been pointing out that they were now diving from the boat with aluminum tanks.