Those health forms -- Truth or Consequences?

[TMHeimer]

Almost anyone can probably find something on the form to check "yes" to. I always checked "no" to everything, as my LDS instructors said (almost with a wink) that if you check yes to anything you need to get the doctor's note. In signing up for DM a medical was required anyway, so my 3 "yesses" had to be checked to be truthful to the doctor. Excellant idea to just keep a spare blank medical sheet to get the doc to sign at your yearly checkup. It's all legalities for the shop especially, but maybe also for yourself. If we didn't have so many frivilous law suits (particularly in the U.S.) the form may simply read "Anything that you are aware of that could cause problems while diving"?

 

[BioLogic]

I'm somewhat amazed and slightly disappointed by some of the comments here which amount to: "I know I am fine so I lie on the medical"....

The RSTC (or whichever form you are required to complete) is there to protect both the diver and the instructor and organisation. Some of the medical requirements are very serious - an epileptic fit or an asthma attack underwater would most likely result in a fatality. That is not to say that people who have suffered from these conditions cannot dive, and there are guidelines for physicians on how to diagnose potential problems that might be associated with diving.

New research by various bodies has allowed asthmatics and diabetics to dive whereas ten years ago it would have been an all-out "No". Some of the conditions, yes, may not be so serious, but they are listed on the form because under pressure, at depth, they may cause significant complications. Scar tissue from a major injury operation can increase a person's susceptibility to DCS because the blood flow in the scar is severly restricted. Some prescription medications may cause a change in blood pressure, some have a narcotic effect that might be heightened at depth. Ear or sinus surgery can create problems with equalisation.

Some examples: An intern at a place I used to work lied about his epilepsy. He had a fit on his Rescue Course and although it happened at the surface (thank goodness), he was medically classed as near drowning. Another guy (actually 3 separate cases) lied about their asthma and after being witness having an attack or taking their inhaler after stepping onto the dive boat were sent packing, not because of their asthma, but because they lied about it. Not long ago it took me 7 minutes to surface an AOW student from a safety stop because she didn't admit to having a deformed eustachian tube; she was in agony.

Falsifying information on a medical can, in the worst case, lead to fatalities. Whether right or wrong, this is probably going to result in families losing loved ones, and the instructor being dragged through the courts, potentially at vast personal expense, in what might well ruin careers and lives - it might be rare, but it happens.

If you have a medical condition and you are concerned about the fitness to dive medical, do everybody concerned a favour and get clearance from a physician, preferably trained in hyperbaric medicine. the Diver's Alert Network (DAN) can assist with locating one. I can't speak for other agencies but by PADI standards it is valid for a year, unless the condition changes.

Thank you to those who are honest, and to those of you who think you're fine and don't see the need for honestly disclosing your condition, please do not come within a country mile of my dive centre.

Thank you very much.

Safe diving,

C.

The problem I see here is equating lying on some nosy bit of paperwork with actually diving with a condition that could be a problem. I do not see those things as the same.

In the examples in the post above, the problem did not arise because the student lied on the form. The problem arose because the student had a medical issue that could impact diving ... and ignored it and dove anyway. Lying on the form was a means to an end, not the heart of the problem.

I would not be diving if my docs told me it was contraindicated; nor would I forego asking about a potential problem so no one would tell me to quit diving. That would be careless disregard of the people I dive with. I would not resent a dive operation asking me to testify that I was medically cleared, nor did I think it unreasonable that I had to get my doc to sign off before I started diving.

What I resent is the asking of specific health questions even after my doc has signed off, and insisting on new paperwork every time I try to take a class or trip (I'm at least a two hour drive from both the dive shops and my oncologist, so this is not trivial), and refusing service in the face of proof of medical clearance. There comes a point when I've already established to a reasonable standard that I'm not a risk and any other questioning is _none of their business_; they're just playing stupid lawyer games. That's the point where I no longer feel compelled to honesty.

Why are we Americans letting the fear of lawsuits cause so much hassle in our lives? I think there's a time to just refuse to play that game.

Just let me establish my medical fitness once (my condition is not subject to ongoing deterioration), note it on my c-card and let me dive already.

 

[RU4SKUBA]

... don't see the problem if your doctor will "okay" you!

 

[boulderjohn]

What I resent is the asking of specific health questions even after my doc has signed off, and insisting on new paperwork every time I try to take a class or trip (I'm at least a two hour drive from both the dive shops and my oncologist, so this is not trivial), and refusing service in the face of proof of medical clearance.

The list on the front is necessary so that a potential student has an idea of what will require medical clearance and what will not require medical clearance. It would be possible to just have a list and leave it up to the student to read the list, but it has been determined that people rarely do that, and so courts will want to see clear evidence that the student's release statement was informed.

Most of these are pretty vague, and the doctor does not need to give any specifics in the release. In another thread like this, a poster was furious that he had to reveal that he was taking viagra. There is absolutely nothing in that form that requires that information. All that has to be done is say that you are taking prescription medicine (which could be anything) and get the doctor to sign.

Can you give an idea of which of the items on the list you feel are intrusive?

The release should be good for a year. There should be no reason to make a special trip if you get a new statement annually and keep it on file.

 

[Buoyant1]

I think the form is a waste unless you have a medical condition, or take a prescription that would preclude you from safe diving! The prescriptions I take do not interfere with anything dive related, and I'm half tempted to just lie on the form because of how bogus it seems! But luckily, my DR. doesn't require me to go visit each time one of these instances turn up, and I can get it signed with little to no difficulty! (since it's happened SO many times before)

 

[TMHeimer]

Every time I try to take a class or dive with a new company, they've asked me to do a health form.

Are you saying that just to go on a charter, not a class, you have been required to fill out the medical form? I've always had to do it for a class, but never just to dive--I've done charters with 5 different ops. Maybe I just forgot having filled them out?

 

[captain]

A medical sign off is fine for a class, once the person is certified than it's just BS for a charter operation to ask for one.
Peter Guy, does that driver coming at you first discuss with you if he has any medical conditions that could result in a head on collision.
Why does diving bring out such erationality when we face many more daily situations that could injure or kill us.

 

[drdaddy]

I'm somewhat amazed and slightly disappointed by some of the comments here which amount to: "I know I am fine so I lie on the medical"....

The RSTC (or whichever form you are required to complete) is there to protect both the diver and the instructor and organisation. Some of the medical requirements are very serious - an epileptic fit or an asthma attack underwater would most likely result in a fatality. That is not to say that people who have suffered from these conditions cannot dive, and there are guidelines for physicians on how to diagnose potential problems that might be associated with diving.

New research by various bodies has allowed asthmatics and diabetics to dive whereas ten years ago it would have been an all-out "No". Some of the conditions, yes, may not be so serious, but they are listed on the form because under pressure, at depth, they may cause significant complications. Scar tissue from a major injury operation can increase a person's susceptibility to DCS because the blood flow in the scar is severly restricted. Some prescription medications may cause a change in blood pressure, some have a narcotic effect that might be heightened at depth. Ear or sinus surgery can create problems with equalisation.

Some examples: An intern at a place I used to work lied about his epilepsy. He had a fit on his Rescue Course and although it happened at the surface (thank goodness), he was medically classed as near drowning. Another guy (actually 3 separate cases) lied about their asthma and after being witness having an attack or taking their inhaler after stepping onto the dive boat were sent packing, not because of their asthma, but because they lied about it. Not long ago it took me 7 minutes to surface an AOW student from a safety stop because she didn't admit to having a deformed eustachian tube; she was in agony.

Falsifying information on a medical can, in the worst case, lead to fatalities. Whether right or wrong, this is probably going to result in families losing loved ones, and the instructor being dragged through the courts, potentially at vast personal expense, in what might well ruin careers and lives - it might be rare, but it happens.

If you have a medical condition and you are concerned about the fitness to dive medical, do everybody concerned a favour and get clearance from a physician, preferably trained in hyperbaric medicine. the Diver's Alert Network (DAN) can assist with locating one. I can't speak for other agencies but by PADI standards it is valid for a year, unless the condition changes.

Thank you to those who are honest, and to those of you who think you're fine and don't see the need for honestly disclosing your condition, please do not come within a country mile of my dive centre.

Thank you very much.

Safe diving,

C.

I think most the people who were talking about "lying" on the form and just signing off, were ones that had the OK from their MDs and did not want the extra "junk" of getting a MD to sign the form every time. For some divers, this is just fine.

Obviously, a divemaster candidate lying about asthma or seizure disorder to their training/certification is not acceptable.

 

[RJP]

I used to be honest on these forms but I no longer bother.

Yeah, what a "bother" the truth is.

 

[RJP]

I think most the people who were talking about "lying" on the form and just signing off, were ones that had the OK from their MDs and did not want the extra "junk" of getting a MD to sign the form every time. For some divers, this is just fine.

Obviously, a divemaster candidate lying about asthma or seizure disorder to their training/certification is not acceptable.

Situational ethics; gotta love it.

"The truth shall set you free...if it's not too much of a bother."