Tipping Etiquette for diving and course?

[humanFish]

I don't tip instructors, and I do not believe many do.

Thanks for the comments. I tend to feel the same way.

 

[friscuba]

I really have no clue what an instructor makes who is working for an LDS, but that is between the instructor and the DS. I do know what I pay for training, and in general it is not cheap.

I paid $225 for Nitrox, and AOW. The classroom time for both was about 6 hours. We did 5 dives, and the instructor participation part of the dive (we generally did the required skills, and she then left us to dive so she could go do OW classes) was 2.5 hours. She then proceeded to do the checkout dives for 24 OW students (2 classes, but she did both) over two days, and she managed to do a few specialities as well.

There was one AI there, and some DM's in training which is free to the LDS. In fact they pay the LDS for the priviledge of helping out with classes. The cost of doing Checkout dives at the Blue Hole is $150 per student, and that is on top of the $150 (not including materials) OW class/pool costs. So someone banked $3900 for just the OW checkouts for two days of work + travel costs plus the money they made from the Nitrox/AOW/Speciality dives.

Instruction does pay good money, and if the Instructors are not seeing much of it, then talk with the LDS as someone is making a very good profit. The LDS likely netted (not including payrole) well over 3K for two days of work, and had two-three employees on the payroll that weekend. It would be interesting to know what the Instructors make, but I'm betting the Lions share goest to the LDS.

I don't tip instructors, and I do not believe many do.

A few things to consider.

One of the realities of dive instruction, at least here in Hawaii, is that oftentimes at a shop, the hardest working, least paid employee with the greatest liability and health risks... is the instructor.

Over here instructors are often recent hires that come over and bust their tails, and occasionally their eardrums, trying to make living in Hawaii work. Take a look at the guys who've been working at the shops the longest who actually spend time on or in the water and it's usually management, the boat captain, the DM and then the instructors. Pay (including tips for the guys working on the boat) often tends to follow the same scale.

Instructors will work hard and then burn out or want/need a bit more income and become DM's (kinda funny how it takes working as an instructor to land a job which technically requires less training and experience) and then eventually get their Captain's ticket. Each step involves getting further away from training students.

Many of the best instructors end up giving up instructing over time because pay (includes tips) is better, and the work generally safer and easier, if you go the DM or boat Captain route. Most people don't tip their instructors. Seems sort of backwards or counter productive to reward those who do the actual training the least.

Refusing to tip instructors solely based on the price of the course is sort of like tipping less as your meal becomes more expensive.

The reality of the business is that instructors do not generally do well when it comes to tips. I know I never tipped my instructors. Knowing what I do now, I'd have changed that.

later,

 

[ch0ppersrule]

I have tipped my instructors as well as the DM's. I have had some really great instructors. I actually dive (fun diving) with them when they get a day off. I have seen how hard the instructors have to work, as do the DM's (which is why I went and got the Master scuba diver cert. instead). I don't want to carry tanks and gear for anybody but myself and I especially don't want to be responsible for anybody but my dive buddy (hubby who is a DM) or me. I got into scuba to enjoy the dive, not work. Kudos to the instructors and DM's.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Most do not tip instructors. At our shop I get paid per student but if you added up the time spent with the students in the classroom, pool and open water it would be about 1/3 of minimum wage. Having a larger class helps make it almost worth while financially. Ya gotta love doing it or you just won't.

I have gotten tips from students and most months 1 or 2 will tip. I've been tipped as much as 200 dollars and that was certainly appreciated. Usually a tip is about 20 bucks.

Like most instructors I am not an employee of the shop.

Tipping is not expected and in the area I live in it would be difficult for most students to be able to afford to tip.

 

[Torontonian]

One of the realities of dive instruction, at least here in Hawaii, is that oftentimes at a shop, the hardest working, least paid employee with the greatest liability and health risks... is the instructor.

Over here instructors are often recent hires that come over and bust their tails, and occasionally their eardrums, trying to make living in Hawaii work. Take a look at the guys who've been working at the shops the longest who actually spend time on or in the water and it's usually management, the boat captain, the DM and then the instructors. Pay (including tips for the guys working on the boat) often tends to follow the same scale.

Instructors will work hard and then burn out or want/need a bit more income and become DM's (kinda funny how it takes working as an instructor to land a job which technically requires less training and experience) and then eventually get their Captain's ticket. Each step involves getting further away from training students.

Many of the best instructors end up giving up instructing over time because pay (includes tips) is better, and the work generally safer and easier, if you go the DM or boat Captain route. Most people don't tip their instructors. Seems sort of backwards or counter productive to reward those who do the actual training the least.

Thanks for all the advise, especially to Steve. I didn't realize that instructors (at least in Hawaii) are the ones doing the most work and then the DMs. I had thought it was the other way (i.e. start as DMs, then move up to be instructors).


For Hawaii, I found doing three 2-location boat dives comes to similar prices to doing AOW (also over three 2-location dives). So it was an easy decision to do AOW over two days. The first day would be trips in morning, then a sunset/night trip, followed by one more trip the next day.

I'll definitely tip the instructor, or instructors if it turns out to be different people over those three trips. I have a lot of respect to scuba DMs/instructors, because your safety depends on them. When I coach softball/badminton etc., if people don't listen they may not play as good a game. But in scuba I know I better listen and learn from the DM/instructors.


Now if I'm following the instructor for a course, including the dives, how does a DM come into play? Do I also have to tip the DM who I am not following to dives?

 

[RonFrank]

A few things to consider.

One of the realities of dive instruction, at least here in Hawaii, is that oftentimes at a shop, the hardest working, least paid employee with the greatest liability and health risks... is the instructor.

Over here instructors are often recent hires that come over and bust their tails, and occasionally their eardrums, trying to make living in Hawaii work. Take a look at the guys who've been working at the shops the longest who actually spend time on or in the water and it's usually management, the boat captain, the DM and then the instructors. Pay (including tips for the guys working on the boat) often tends to follow the same scale.

Instructors will work hard and then burn out or want/need a bit more income and become DM's (kinda funny how it takes working as an instructor to land a job which technically requires less training and experience) and then eventually get their Captain's ticket. Each step involves getting further away from training students.

Many of the best instructors end up giving up instructing over time because pay (includes tips) is better, and the work generally safer and easier, if you go the DM or boat Captain route. Most people don't tip their instructors. Seems sort of backwards or counter productive to reward those who do the actual training the least.

Refusing to tip instructors solely based on the price of the course is sort of like tipping less as your meal becomes more expensive.

The reality of the business is that instructors do not generally do well when it comes to tips. I know I never tipped my instructors. Knowing what I do now, I'd have changed that.

later,

I agree with everything you have said. Unfortunately the reality is that the lion share of instruction is going to be OW, and OW studends tend to be pushing their financial limits just to dive in the first place.

Costs for doing OW in Denver are about $350-$400 per student. Add in to that the cost of a trip to Blue Hole if doing certification between Sept-May which will include two nights hotel, gas, meals, and maybe a day off work as the Blue Hole is a 6 hour drive. In addition, personal items are included in the pool sessions, but not in the checkout dives. So renting is an additional maybe $25, but most opt to purchase from the LDS. As they are paying a premium for a mask/fins/snorkel/booties that will run $300.

So that $150 Gold Weekend OW class that did not seem like so much (but did not include CheckOut dives) is now running $550 - $850 depending on gear purchase, gas prices, and hotel costs.

The LDS is seeing $300 to $350 per student for JUST instruction, and making a profit off the materials, and gear. They also generally setup a hotel for divers to use, and they will get their lodging for nothing, or at an extremely discounted rate if they have all the students booking the hotel through them. Some students will opt to do the Checkout dives in places like Coz, so they will then profit from that travel as well.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that while I strongly feel that instructors are underpaid, I see the problem being the LDS fee structure, and not a tipping issue.

The owners of our LDS dive a Lexus, and owners in another LDS have resort property in an exotic location (can not remember where) complete with a Dive Boat. They may not be seeing Bill Gates $$$ in their lifetime running the LDS, and they work hard. However if the instructors are not making enough to survive (most do this in the Denver area as a second job) then maybe something needs to change in the industry.

I'm not sure one can count on tips from someone who has just forked out $800 or double that in the case of a couple, which is common, to learn to dive. They assume for all the $$$ they are paying, that everyone is getting paid, and tipping is not even mentioned at the LDS unlike every Dive and Fishing boat I've ever been on.

 

[pearl4diving]

Now if I'm following the instructor for a course, including the dives, how does a DM come into play? Do I also have to tip the DM who I am not following to dives?

I think you tip who helps you. For my AOW, there was no divemaster involved with my dives, it was just the Instructor, so thats who I tipped.

- of course every situation can be a little different....

Good luck and Enjoy your AOW course!

Pearl

 

[friscuba]

Thanks for all the advise, especially to Steve. I didn't realize that instructors (at least in Hawaii) are the ones doing the most work and then the DMs. I had thought it was the other way (i.e. start as DMs, then move up to be instructors).

The usual way is to become a DM first and then become an instructor later. Over here, instructors are a dime a dozen and it usually takes an instructor level certification just to get a job. The instructors will be given students, and they can learn the dive sites as they teach. Eventually a long time DM will leave, or the business will grow to where they need more DMs for guiding certifeid divers, and that'll open up a spot for the instructor to start leading tours. The DMs do work hard, but lifitng a few tanks, giving a briefing and then leading a dive is much less demanding than training people to dive who don't know how to dive. I know a few guys who were in the right place at the right time and were hired on as DMs, they rarely ever go on to be instructors as it's just more work. In either case, usually after a couple years of working on the water, crew usually takes the Captain's course and gets their Captains' ticket.

Now realize, this is not the way it always works, just seems to be the way it works more often than not, so it's a generalization.

As far as tipping here, in the majority of situations you won't have the typical 1 instructor with 1 or more DMs running larger classes you might find on the mainland. A few really busy shops may have that, but most of the time it seems that instruction is usually is somewhere in the one on one to one to four ratio - just an instructor with their students. Sometimes you'll see DM trainees tagging along.

In either case, you will generally just tip one person, and then if there are others involved in the process (boat captain, other crew), it'll generally get divided up accordingly at the end of the day. When I was working for other boats, the typical scenerio was a boat Captain, a DM with the certified divers, myself with any students. At the end of the day the DM and Captain would share tips from the certified divers, and if students tipped, that specific money would be split between the Captain and I as the DM rarrely had anything to do with students other than talking during the surface interval. Some boats have different policies, such as an equal split for all crew working that day and such.... you only need to tip one person and it'll all be figured out.

If you really feel you want to tip one individual specifically well for extra service you received from them, then hand them the tip with a "this is for you, I'll take care of the others" and then do the same for anyone else you want to tip (they don't need to know what the other guy got). It'll usually stay in the hands of those you wanted to tip in the manner you wanted.

Have fun,

 

[Cacia]

\I thought I would answer this one late, when the heat is off and no one is looking!

I find it really embarassing when DM or Instructor's go into a big speech about how they need the money to stay in the country or whatever the sob story is. I have had two boat captains tell me how uncomfortable they have been when various dive guides start this whole monologue. One boat in the harbor (parasailing) has this big sign that says "Tipping is NOT a City in China". I cringe everytime I see it.

I do not think there is a formula and thats what makes it a tip! I tip about ten-fifteen a day on vacation when they are hauling my gear around, etc.

.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

\I thought I would answer this one late, when the heat is off and no one is looking!

I find it really embarassing when DM or Instructor's go into a big speech about how they need the money to stay in the country or whatever the sob story is. I have had two boat captains tell me how uncomfortable they have been when various dive guides start this whole monologue. One boat in the harbor (parasailing) has this big sign that says "Tipping is NOT a City in China". I cringe everytime I see it.
.

Some dive boats on Maui make a big deal about tipping. As a dive leader myself I think it's unprofessional as hell. If a dive leader made such a request on the B&B boat I have a feeling he'd be looking for work on another boat soon. You'll never hear about tips from them.

When we dive my wife and I will generally tip the B&B leaders 20 bucks. They work their butts off.

We've also stiffed dive leaders on other boats. Ya gotta earn it.