Tipping the boat crew at all inclusives resorts??

[parrotheaddiver]

I wish more operators were like that.


I wish fewer people were like you.


I just feel that this whole practice of tipping is unnatural. Employees should be paid by their employers not by their customers. Giving someone a tip for that extra service that he gave is fine but that is not what is being discussed here. If I speak out about tipping I know that the next argument is going to be "but these people earn so little, without our tips they won't survive" and I have a big problem with that.

There, can of worms opened.

the problem is most employers DON'T pay their employees enough wage....I consider my dm and bc friends and they treat me well and their day starts very early and ends very late and I also feel like they probably do get a fair wage from their employer but I still tip....I don't agree with you but then I think you know that the majority of the divers here will not and if you don't want to tip no problem we are all free to do what we want if me tipping makes you look bad...oh well it is what it is

 

[CuNanoTube]

I wish more operators were like that.


I wish fewer people were like you.


I just feel that this whole practice of tipping is unnatural. Employees should be paid by their employers not by their customers. Giving someone a tip for that extra service that he gave is fine but that is not what is being discussed here. If I speak out about tipping I know that the next argument is going to be "but these people earn so little, without our tips they won't survive" and I have a big problem with that.

There, can of worms opened.

I agree fully. Unless a person has gone above and beyond I will not tip. (one exception is restaurants where the waiters make all their money through tips, and if they are bad they won't get much)

 

[Deefstes]

if me tipping makes you look bad...oh well it is what it is

I'm not really concerned that your tipping makes me look bad but rather that it's serving as an excuse for the employer not to pay his/her employees properly because their income will be augmented by tips. Of course it's a chicken or egg situation and I don't know whether DM's, boat crew and waiters are paid poorly because tipping is so prevalent or whether tipping is so prevalent because they're paid poorly but it is an unhealthy cycle, one feeds the other. By tipping at a resort where they expressly state that gratuities are included I think you're asking for that unhealthy cycle to start again.

I agree fully. Unless a person has gone above and beyond I will not tip. (one exception is restaurants where the waiters make all their money through tips, and if they are bad they won't get much)

There's an argument to be made for that but I still don't like it. I'll be honest, I also tip at restaurants (at least around here the norm is 10%, not 20% or 25% as I believe it is in some places in the States) but I resent having to pay someone's salary with whom I have no contractual agreement. Surely there must be other ways for employers to measure their employees' performance and adjust their salaries accordingly. Why leave that up to the customer?

 

[Panchita]

I'll be honest, I also tip at restaurants... but I resent having to pay someone's salary with whom I have no contractual agreement. Surely there must be other ways for employers to measure their employees' performance and adjust their salaries accordingly. Why leave that up to the customer?

My experience to date has been that the friendly, helpful people that work 12-16 hour days in the service industry in the wide variety of international destinations that I'm fortunate to be able to afford to visit are infinitely more pleasant to be around than the grudging, stingy bargain-shoppers that use the "unfairness" of the world-wide capitalist system to excuse their tight-fisted behavior.

Perhaps in the future you should consider staying home so that you can squeeze your pennies in peace and not be taken advantage of by all those maids (who clean up after you), waiters (who serve you) and dive crews (who might save your life someday).

 

[husco]

I'm not really concerned that your tipping makes me look bad but rather that it's serving as an excuse for the employer not to pay his/her employees properly because their income will be augmented by tips. Of course it's a chicken or egg situation and I don't know whether DM's, boat crew and waiters are paid poorly because tipping is so prevalent or whether tipping is so prevalent because they're paid poorly but it is an unhealthy cycle, one feeds the other. By tipping at a resort where they expressly state that gratuities are included I think you're asking for that unhealthy cycle to start again.


There's an argument to be made for that but I still don't like it. I'll be honest, I also tip at restaurants (at least around here the norm is 10%, not 20% or 25% as I believe it is in some places in the States) but I resent having to pay someone's salary with whom I have no contractual agreement. Surely there must be other ways for employers to measure their employees' performance and adjust their salaries accordingly. Why leave that up to the customer?

A tip is just that its a tip. Not a requirement. If you want a divemaster to treat you well and work hard for you. Give him/her a good tip. I don't care if they are paid well or not by their employer. Some people don't like the DM to touch their equipment while others, myself included, like to be pampered and have my gear set up, tore down and rinsed for them. Others like to have a DM find marine life and point things out for them as well as keeping an eye on them for safey. As the old saying goes you get what you pay for! Or in this case what your tip for! If you resent tipping a DM he may resent saving your life one day. They provide you a service and should be compensated accordingly.

 

[Deefstes]

Perhaps in the future you should consider staying home so that you can squeeze your pennies in peace and not be taken advantage of by all those maids (who clean up after you), waiters (who serve you) and dive crews (who might save your life someday).

I assume then you also tip the cashier at the supermarket, the teller at the bank and the sales representative at the car rental company? I mean, surely you're not a grudging, stingy bargain-shopper?

But speaking of people that are pleasant to be around with, my experience to date has been that people who can engage in debating an issue on its merits are infinitely more pleasant to be around with than those who can only make their point by calling others names.

I can understand now why you don't engage in conversation on SB much, you obviously don't have what it takes.

A tip is just that its a tip. Not a requirement. If you want a divemaster to treat you well and work hard for you. Give him/her a good tip.

I agree with the first part, but not the second. Yes, a tip should be optional, not a requirement. No, I expect a DM, boat captain, supermarket cashier, bank teller, financial adviser, tax consultant, everybody, to treat their customers well and to work hard, whether or not they receive a tip. I'm a software engineer, we don't function on tips. My employer expects of me to work hard but also my personal sense of pride in what I do, not because I've received a tip, not in the hopes that I will receive a tip (I know I won't), but because I take pride in what I do.

My employer (like so many others) does have systems in place with which he assesses my work and if I don't do my job well it will impact on my end of year salary increase or bonus. I'm sure he would have preferred a business model where he could pass that burden to the customer but, like both you and I know, he knows that it's ridiculous. Seems though that the restaurant industry, the American diving industry and a few others have managed to sucker their employees and their customers into that business model though, very convenient for the employers.

Please don't get me wrong though (like Panchita has), I am all for incentives and reward for a job well done. What I have a problem with is a system where an employee can't get by on his wages/salary but has to rely on the goodwill of his customers. I honestly don't mind tipping someone (and not just boat crews or waiters) when I think to myself "jeez, that was nice, this guy really went the extra mile" but I hate tipping when I think to myself "shame, this poor soul won't survive if I don't tip him". That's just backwards. It turns the tip into a charitable donation.

 

[DandyDon]

I really am in agreement mostly with Deefstes. I hate expected & excessive tipping.

I guess I give in easier, but when in doubt - I will. A tip jar at a self serve window is insulting tho.

 

[parrotman]

What I find so interesting about tipping at dive resorts/liveaboards etc. is that you will rarely see a non American leave a tip. I was on a liveaboard in Papua New Guinea two years ago, there were only 3 Americans on the boat. I spoke with the purser while settling my bill and I asked her about the tipping customs of the passengers from different countries. She told me that the only passengers on the boat that left a tip where the Americans and that it was typical. I had left a 15% tip which, she told me that this amount would pay the entire boat crew (not including the Captain) wages for a week.

I was having a discussion about this very thing the other day in regards to diving in the Philippines. Scenario - minimum wage in the Philippines works out to be $1.08 an hour. 4 people on a boat doing a 3 tank day. Two boat crew including a DM.
At $5 per tank per man that is $60 a day in tips. split between the two dive crew that is $30 a day. Essentially this works out to be about 4 times minimum wage.

From that perspective - you can pretty much bet that a Filipino diver is not going to leave a $5 tip which would be 216 pesos when an average days wage is 46 pesos. On the other side of that, diving in Australia where a waitress in a restaurant makes $20 an hour, no tips expected. Is $5 a tank a reasonable tip?


I have been going diving in the Honduras for many years. On my first trip there I gave the DM a tip and he actually acted surprised but was also appreciative. The last time I went to Roatan, the DM after the last dive of the week informed the group on our boat that he expected us at the dock at 2:30 to give him his tip and that we were to pay in cash. Is this a result of Americans imposing there tipping practices on other cultures etc?