Tips on Tips

[Diver Dennis]

Do you folks tip EVERY low income person who performs a good or decent service for you? How about the single mom serving you from behind the counter at McDonalds, who is getting minimum wage and is trying to support two kids? What about the cook in the restaurant who actually cooks your food, not just delivers it, and never gets any thanks from anyone? Do you go into the kitchen before you leave to give him a tip? What about the kid working at Wal Mart stocking shelves, who is trying to pay for school? Do you tip her 50 cents when she helps you find the toilet bowl cleaner in aisle 6?

It seems you are trying very hard to justify tipping NO ONE.

 

[redrover]

I’m so glad this came up again. And once again, so far there seems to be no set standard. I got a bit horrified following the SoCal tipping thread and I agonize over this.
Years ago I found an excellent hairdresser and tried to tip him. He said he was a professional, charged what his services were worth and he was offended by tipping. Only one of my instructing occupations had tipping, and it was considered a pleasantly surprising event. Most of my low income occupations were specifically designated no tipping; an offer was to be refused. What we did, life saving among other things and never a waitress, was professional services expected and the majority of years (20 some) in resorts.

I really liked a lot of assistance and attention on boat dives and I’d love to tip heavily for good service. But don’t really prefer it if I should pay more for that than the fee. I get Kamina rates or I’d very rarely boat dive because I have very little disposable income. Going out standby or on my LDS club dives is really splurging for me. I’m very willing to not use the amount of energy such as Baitedstorm provides. Sounds really great, I just wish I could afford to reward it. In principal though, I’d just as soon take care of myself, I’m pretty much an independent old cuss.
I have been out where I got very beneficial advice and had no, nada extra dollar to contribute. I felt terrible. I have later pressed much more than I should have into their hand when I had it, but it still was tiny compared to the general consensus I’m reading here.

I’d really appreciate more DM’s and Captains etc offering some opinions and perspectives. How do us peons of the food chain look to you guys? I’m embarrassed, uncomfortable just asking the ones I dive with what I should do, what is expected. I haven’t felt pressured, just feeling guilty of being a jerk. I do try to help load and unload gear, schlep tanks, say thank you every opportunity and not cause any problems in general. What besides the obvious big tip is appreciated?

 

[Diver Dennis]

I’m so glad this came up again. And once again, so far there seems to be no set standard. I got a bit horrified following the SoCal tipping thread and I agonize over this.
Years ago I found an excellent hairdresser and tried to tip him. He said he was a professional, charged what his services were worth and he was offended by tipping. Only one of my instructing occupations had tipping, and it was considered a pleasantly surprising event. Most of my low income occupations were specifically designated no tipping; an offer was to be refused. What we did, life saving among other things and never a waitress, was professional services expected and the majority of years (20 some) in resorts.

I really liked a lot of assistance and attention on boat dives and I’d love to tip heavily for good service. But don’t really prefer it if I should pay more for that than the fee. I get Kamina rates or I’d very rarely boat dive because I have very little disposable income. Going out standby or on my LDS club dives is really splurging for me. I’m very willing to not use the amount of energy such as Baitedstorm provides. Sounds really great, I just wish I could afford to reward it. In principal though, I’d just as soon take care of myself, I’m pretty much an independent old cuss.
I have been out where I got very beneficial advice and had no, nada extra dollar to contribute. I felt terrible. I have later pressed much more than I should have into their hand when I had it, but it still was tiny compared to the general consensus I’m reading here.

I’d really appreciate more DM’s and Captains etc offering some opinions and perspectives. How do us peons of the food chain look to you guys? I’m embarrassed, uncomfortable just asking the ones I dive with what I should do, what is expected. I haven’t felt pressured, just feeling guilty of being a jerk. I do try to help load and unload gear, schlep tanks, say thank you every opportunity and not cause any problems in general. What besides the obvious big tip is appreciated?

Redrover, I know divers who are in the same position you are. Dms and the other folks who work on the boat are just the people who would understand if you just tell them you can't afford to tip but you really appreciate the great job they did. You should not feel like a jerk, just getting the money together to go diving can be tough enough. Let them know and I'm sure they will understand where you are coming from because a lot of them are there. If you don't tell them they might just think you are another one of those cheap bas****s.

 

[Azza]

Tip nothing. It's not your fault that the employer doesn't pay them enough, and you shouldn't have to compensate them for what their employer is unwilling to do. If they expect a tip, that's their problem, not yours. Tell them "Well, I expect a refund because I was a good customer" and see what they say.

By Tipping all anyone is doing is encouraging employers to get slave labour. You pay $100 for a day on a boat and then you are expected to tip on top of that? What was the $100 for? I for one am glad I live in a country where tipping is actively discouraged.

If they do a good job, assume it's because they were raised by parents who instilled in them a sense of pride in doing a good job. And in that case, they would probably be offended at the thought of a tip.

I was asked by the shop I work for if I would give an american guy, on a business trip to our country, a lift to the boat and back. Its a one hour drive and I used my own vehicle to do so, however I was going that way anyway so no probs.
After I dropped him back at his hotel he tried to give me $20.
I told him to keep his money because he had already paid $100 for the trip, and if us divers cant give each other a hand sometimes then what is the world coming to.

 

[ChillyWaters]

they might just think you are another one of those cheap bas****s.

Hmmm... excuse me, but I still come from the train of thought that a tip is earned, regardless of profession. It shouldn't be expected.


However, on the topic of diving, I have a few questions:
Are there regions that expect tipping for DMs? I say this as another Canadian noted that it wasn't expected up here. Perhaps some areas actually pay their DMs -- which makes sense, IMHO.

If a DM is so damned good, why isn't he being paid, with that cost then put to the consumer in the dive fee?

- ChillyWaters

 

[ChillyWaters]

I for one am glad I live in a country where tipping is actively discouraged.

I lived in Australia for a year, several years ago, and got that same impression. Perhaps partially due to higher minimum wages, and perhaps generally higher wages due to the lack of a tipping culture. Hey, I'd rather see a larger single fee than be expected to tip. It's like an extra tax.

But I guess the tipping scenerio needs to meet the regional expectation. If wages are set to assume tipping, then I guess one should tip. But the fee for the service better be lower as a result!!!

So, again, it would be interesting and useful to see the tipping scenarios broken down more by region.

- ChillyWaters

 

[baitedstorm]

I’d really appreciate more DM’s and Captains etc offering some opinions and perspectives. How do us peons of the food chain look to you guys? I’m embarrassed, uncomfortable just asking the ones I dive with what I should do, what is expected. I haven’t felt pressured, just feeling guilty of being a jerk. I do try to help load and unload gear, schlep tanks, say thank you every opportunity and not cause any problems in general. What besides the obvious big tip is appreciated?

Sometimes a smile and a thank you far out weigh any amount of money!!! I to wish I lived in a place where the Charter Op paid it's crew and didn't except tipping, however in the sunshine state, that is a very rare occurance.

I had 12 deaf students not long ago, I had to really work my butt off with them. Seeing how these students were kids (ages 15-19) I figured they wouldn't be tipping at all. Never once did I change my service offered. At the end of the day, all the smiles and hugs I got far out weighed any $$.

 

[MikeFerrara]

As a DM, I'm here to tell you, we work hard. Not just loading and unloading all your things, making sure the energy level stays high on the boat, feeding you, and tending to your every little whimper.... We also have to babysit some of you (you know who you are) . It is my job to work out the dive plans (although I expect you to have your own, mine is a back-up plan if I see your exceeding the safety zone), I keep a close eye out on everyone while still hooking you up with the best the reef has to offer. I usually have any piece of equipment standing by waiting for something of yours to break so I can jump out with the big save a dive kit and fix it. Should your injury yourself, I've taken several expensive classes to make sure you are as safe as we can get you until more help arrives. When you get sea sick, it will be me coming to your rescue to hose you off if you don't make it to the stern. I'll be the one holding a few ice chips for you to suck on to rinse out the puke taste and still keep you hydrated. When you forget to pick up your mask off the boat deck, I'll be the one who snatches it up before anyone steps on it. When your getting on the boat and drop something back into the ocean, it will be me racing to whatever depth to fetch it. When your sitting there staring at your new computer completely clue less, I'll be right there to break it down for you.

I have to pay very costly insurance every yr to protect both you and myself and keep up with the latest dive gear. The great DM's do all this everyday without a single person catching on just how hard we really work. It is our job to keep the "un-fun" stuff away from our customers far behind the scene.
This is my job and I love ever second of it! On my boat, the Captain says nothing about tipping us or even that we work for free. We have a small tip jar for people to throw $$ in. We do it this way so people don't feel awkward handing it to us (I don't think I'll ever get use to that weird feeling of someone handing me money, I like the jar method).

BTW, we don't stand around the dock complaining about our tips or lack of them. I'm happy if I make enough to pay for my gas to drive down.
If your DM/crew is good, tip them! Don't hold the weather, temp,current or viz against them.

I've done all kinds of work in my life and I don't remember any of it being easy though the challanges of each were different.

If you are an asset to your employer and if they depend on your services they should be willing to pay you for it. If you you believe that you add value to the business you should not do it without appropriate compensation.

I've done the free DM thing both on boats and in classes. I've done the instructor thing and even when I got paid I often came out money behind. I've owned a dive shop. The dive industry is so very very screwed up. It's like Amway or something. Shops rely heavily on free DM help and new instructors working for little more than deals on gear. They rely on the fact that many are professionals and have good paying day jobs and are willing to "work" at diving out of their love for the sport. They use your free or cheap labor to help put on cheap classes that no one makes money on so they can make a buck selling gear to students or to enable them to sell charter trips and not have to pay the help. Then they certify a bunch of people to fill the resorts who need to be baby sat. Yall do what you want but you probably won't see me staring at my computer cluelessly ect ect and I won't play the silly dive op game of tip the poor person who is working for free. If you choose to donate your time and effort...good for you. Charity is an admirable thing. If you need pay then get a job that pays.That's what I have to do.

I love being an engineer yet I am unwilling to do it for much less than 70K per year or so and a good benefit package. I spent lots of time and money on an education and gaining experience, my services make money for the company and I need to get paid. I'm also a black smith and farrier and though I really love doing it you still won't get shoes on your horse for much less than $100 and maybe much more depending on the job. I served a very long and grueling apprenticship to learn it, it's very hard work, dangerous at times, I have a lot of money tied up in tools and I don't do it for free.

I too spent mucho money, time and effort on a dive education, equipment, insurance ect. I found that I couldn't make much money at it even when I owned a dive shop. Shoot when I walked away I think I left behind about 50K. I'm afraid to look and see exactly how much and probably never will. Wanna compare investments? So, as much as I love diving and teaching I do other work for the privilage of being able to dive and , in general, live in a mannor that I choose. I don't know what else to say to those who love diving enough to want to dive instead of getting a paying job like some one mentioned in this thread.

If I pay to get on a boat to dive I'll expect whatever services the oporator states that they provide for the price. If I've agreed on that price for those services I think I'm paid up. I don't need any services beyond that and I don't want any debt beyond that.

If some one wants to do something nice for me that delights me enough to want to give them a monitary gift the best way would be to have my 4 acres of yard mowed and trimmed when I get home from work on Friday so I can go diving on Sat. Maybe install that new water pump my wife wants and fix the barn roof too. That would be worth some tip money to me. Funny, how you just don't find too many people looking to do that kind of work for tips, aint it? LOL. I can handle the diving part on my own thanks.

 

[Talon]

AWESOME POST!

First a couple of comments, when I first started diving I used Rampage almost exclusively and I generally tipped the DM (Mike) anywhere from 10 to 20 bucks depending on how much of a pain in the rear end I WAS! I learned more about diving from him the first six months then I did in class

Now when I dive I only tip $5/trip. Why? Here is MY perspective and I would be interested to here your comments baitedstorm. I lug my on gear on and off the boat. I get myself off and on the boat during the dives. If I or a buddy have equipment problems, I fix them. On the actual dives themself, the only thing I ask is point the way to the site - I like to do my own thing. You have a ball to carry and are chasing newbie divers down the reef line. So within two minutes your already WAY out of site usually

So what does a DM do for me during a dive trip generally. Nothing usually. Do I consider that bad service. NO! I actually prefer it that way. I don't dive boats that insist on holding your hand. Because in general they are also the ones that put the most restrictions on you as a diver.

I have never dove with you (at least I don't think so), nor have I ever been on the A1A Charter. But I need to join you on one trip here soon. Scuba Dad and I have mentioned catching one weekend soon.

So here is the question: If I do my typical dive and take care of myself - would YOU consider a $5 tip appropriate?

As a working DM tips range any where from nothing to $100 (so far for me). The odd thing is, I find the best divers always tip more and the divers who require so much extra care tip the least. On average here in Florida $5-10 per person is the norm. On the boat I work on the deck hand and myself split everything straight down the middle. The Captain gets his from the actual trip. We do not get paid any other way (sadly, and without us, the Captains job probably wouldn't exist). I have a few perks like, my husband can come out and dive for free anytime so long as there is an open spot for him. Crew dives every now and then to blow off some steam.

As a DM, I'm here to tell you, we work hard. Not just loading and unloading all your things, making sure the energy level stays high on the boat, feeding you, and tending to your every little whimper.... We also have to babysit some of you (you know who you are) . It is my job to work out the dive plans (although I expect you to have your own, mine is a back-up plan if I see your exceeding the safety zone), I keep a close eye out on everyone while still hooking you up with the best the reef has to offer. I usually have any piece of equipment standing by waiting for something of yours to break so I can jump out with the big save a dive kit and fix it. Should your injury yourself, I've taken several expensive classes to make sure you are as safe as we can get you until more help arrives. When you get sea sick, it will be me coming to your rescue to hose you off if you don't make it to the stern. I'll be the one holding a few ice chips for you to suck on to rinse out the puke taste and still keep you hydrated. When you forget to pick up your mask off the boat deck, I'll be the one who snatches it up before anyone steps on it. When your getting on the boat and drop something back into the ocean, it will be me racing to whatever depth to fetch it. When your sitting there staring at your new computer completely clue less, I'll be right there to break it down for you.

I have to pay very costly insurance every yr to protect both you and myself and keep up with the latest dive gear. The great DM's do all this everyday without a single person catching on just how hard we really work. It is our job to keep the "un-fun" stuff away from our customers far behind the scene.
This is my job and I love ever second of it! On my boat, the Captain says nothing about tipping us or even that we work for free. We have a small tip jar for people to throw $$ in. We do it this way so people don't feel awkward handing it to us (I don't think I'll ever get use to that weird feeling of someone handing me money, I like the jar method).

BTW, we don't stand around the dock complaining about our tips or lack of them. I'm happy if I make enough to pay for my gas to drive down.
If your DM/crew is good, tip them! Don't hold the weather, temp,current or viz against them.

 

[D_B]

A tip is an appreciation of a personal service done exceptionally well.
I don't feel the need to tip someone who's done a bad job, but I do feel the need to reward a good/great one

I agree, Batedstorm's is an Awesome Post! ... and is an excellent example why they deserve the tips (if you can not, tell them what a good job they did and how much you enjoyed the dive, that you would tip them if you could)

DB