Training System: PADI vs. TDI

[victorzamora]

I think posting and dive quality are almost separate from eachother. I don't believe one has ANYTHING to do with the other. If Edd Sorenson joined this forum, he'd have VERY few posts. Does that make him a bad diver? Rob Neto has a TON of posts....does that make him a bad diver? There are non-certified divers on here with one post, and there are non-certified or barely-certified divers with hundreds. Does that make them good or bad? ABSOLUTELY NOT. John is a good diver with a lot of experience that happens to post a lot. They're VERY different topics, internet dives and real dives, and don't really correlate at all.

As for the 130ft "magic number".....I definitely don't think it's a magic number. However, any dive in triple digits really starts adding narcosis potential....especially on air. The OP was discussing dives to 200ft, which really is Trimix territory nowadays....even in open water. In an overhead environment, no agency recommends END of <130. Most agencies recommend END of <100. So yeah, there's nothing magical about 100ft or 130ft.....but it does tend to correlate to increasing narcosis and rapidly increasing deco obligations.

However, this isn't about diving to that level without training....it's about what training to get. On that topic, PADI doesn't really have an official Wreck Penetration course. To that end, I have to say: IGNORE THE AGENCY. Find an instructor with a good reputation. One that you'd be willing to trust with your life. Then let him/her teach you to dive like he/she does....and print off a card at the end of it. The card is basically a formality if you get a good instructor.

 

[nimoh]

Most agencies recommend END of >100.

minor point, but that should read "END of <=100"

 

[victorzamora]

minor point, but that should read "END of <=100"

Yup, I fixed it. I typed it in a hurry and didn't spell check it. That's what I get for posting in the office, right?

 

[flots am]

[/B]That "magic" doesn't translate to impending doom or the scenario resulting in an inherently "unsafe" environment for a diver who is well trained and spends time in those circumstances with proper training and regular (~daily/weekly/[maybe]biweekly) frequency.

I maintain that you are statistically more likely to die on your morning commute than you are to die diving to any of the depths in question. The blanket statement made is plain fearmongering.

I'm not going to convince you and frankly don't care.

However I hope I made an impression on any Open Water divers who hadn't thought about what "no access to the surface" actually means.

flots.

 

[abnfrog]

It can take 10 seconds to make a quick post. A good decompression dive can take a couple of hours--time to 50-60 short posts. That does not count the time it takes to plan the dive, etc. A highly experienced diver will also spend many, many hours studying dive theory, time that is not reflected in the dive count.

I cannot see how anyone can tell anything at all about the quality of advice being given by determining if they have more posts than dives.

But you seem convinced. Please explain why people should prefer advice given by person B below rather than person A:

Person A: This diver has made more than 2,000 dives, many of them in caves and at great depths with trimix and staged decompression. He has researched the theory of diving extensively. He has made 5,000 posts that have learned him a stellar reputation.

Person B: This diver has done 65 dives, all off the coast of Maui at a maximum depth of 55 feet. He has read nothing beyond his OW book. He has just started reading Internet forums, and he has posted 8 times.

im talking about less than oh say 500 dives ...13-15 thousand posts ...that kind of a thing lets use the word " disproportionate "

 

[mathauck0814]

However I hope I made an impression on any Open Water divers who hadn't thought about what "no access to the surface" actually means.

What does "no access to the surface" have anything to do with Open Water divers? This thread began as a diver asking how to progress into a certain type of diving. The thread has devolved into fearmongering about that type of diving being inherently "unsafe". No one has asserted a position that anyone do anything they haven't been trained for and aren't comfortable with.

If you're qualified to do dives to 200 feet and you feel that it is inherently "unsafe" I'd encourage that diver not to dive to 200 feet as they're clearly not prepared for it. You can respect something without being afraid of it.

To the OP - If you're going to pursue this type of diving, just be sure you will actually dive in that manner with some regularity so that your dives to such depths can become as routine as your shallower dives. If a dive feels like a big deal, it is - not because the dive is unsafe, but because you're not prepared. Those instincts will serve you well and keep you alive if you abide them.

 

[mike.chuanshi]

FWIW, I acquired some deco training while I was living on Oahu (Advanced EAN and Technical Diver), and they were through an IANTD instructor. I enjoyed my instruction with him a great deal. He also offers trimix training, as you indicated. Note that O2 fills and trimix will be comparatively more expensive in HI than mainland diving hotspots, so budget accordingly. I also have a buddy that provides training through trimix (PADI), and he is very good also. I can pass on his details if you wish, as well as those of my own instructor.

Thanks for the info. I'd be very interested in finding such an instructor and hearing about your experiences training with him.

 

[boulderjohn]

im talking about less than oh say 500 dives ...13-15 thousand posts ...that kind of a thing lets use the word " disproportionate "

Got it.

I have been posting on ScubaBoard for a decade, and as a moderator, I get in a lot of posts, a number far higher than I could possibly ever get in dives. According to you, that diminishes my ability to make sound comments regarding diving. Who could possibly trust anything I have to say?

When I post on the Cave Divers Forum, on the other hand, I have only been a member about 5 years and I don't feel as if I have as much to offer. Consequently, I have many more dives than posts there. I guess people who tune in to the cave divers forum should be hanging on every word I write. I must be a diving genius.

Is that how it goes? I think I understand your argument, but I am not quite sure.

 

[abnfrog]

Got it.

I have been posting on ScubaBoard for a decade, and as a moderator, I get in a lot of posts, a number far higher than I could possibly ever get in dives. According to you, that diminishes my ability to make sound comments regarding diving. Who could possibly trust anything I have to say?

When I post on the Cave Divers Forum, on the other hand, I have only been a member about 5 years and I don't feel as if I have as much to offer. Consequently, I have many more dives than posts there. I guess people who tune in to the cave divers forum should be hanging on every word I write. I must be a diving genius.

Is that how it goes? I think I understand your argument, but I am not quite sure.

wow you jumped from 500 dives to 2500 in a day ...... cool beans ... trying to get more qualified ?


im done arguing with you ......

 

[flots am]

What does "no access to the surface" have anything to do with Open Water divers? This thread began as a diver asking how to progress into a certain type of diving.

The OP wanted to learn how to do deep overhead deco dives safely.

I mentioned that this is not actually possible. There is no level of training or equipment that will ever make these dives "safe"

They can be made safer but they will never be safe because divers are human, humans make mistakes, and bad mistakes on one of these dives are often fatal.

I'm not saying that nobody should ever go into a cave or wreck, I'm saying that there should be no illusion that this type of dive is, or can ever be made "safe"

flots.