Trimix Certification Agencies

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If you can wait until you make a trip back to the PNW you might want to consider taking the GUE tech class from Andrew Georgitsis or Nick Foster in Kent, WA.

Or if it is something you need to take care of on the east coast check out the training schedule on:
www.gue.com
 
g2, I can't tell if your question's been answered yet, so here's my two cents.

Firstly, I'm with UP in that some of the skills you can't see using are required for any diver who's taking the step you're planning. For instance, blacked out can mean silt out, or for you, no mask. Nothing can end your dive - if you can't follow a line with no mask while maintaining buoyancy, for example, you're gonna have a hard time doing a controlled ascent on a line with no mask if it comes to that.

I could probably find something similar for other stuff - the point is, you may come to find applications for these skills you didn't expect.

The other thing I've noticed in all technical training is, it's less about the agency than about the instructor. GUE maintains high instructor standards, so they're pretty reliable, if heavy-handed. I've had excellent TDI and IANTD instructors as well, though I've heard of some bad ones. FYI, my TDI guy made me follow a line with no mask, maybe it was just him. I go less by agency and more by recommendations from divers I trust now. If you're going by agency, I hate to say it but I'd go with GUE if you don't mind some tough love. Otherwise I'd find a good TDI instructor - they're less cave-focused than others.
 
As others have said, its not the gas that requires the skill development it's the type of dive that the gas will be used for. My personal opinion is that cave training is great preperation for any technical diving. The skilles learned will serve you well for all diving.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...
As others have said, its not the gas that requires the skill development it's the type of dive that the gas will be used for. My personal opinion is that cave training is great preperation for any technical diving. The skilles learned will serve you well for all diving.

That's great advice, I second it. Cave training is great preparation for any diver - cave divers are the best divers around.
 
G2

First a question; It sounds like you are doing your diving in the Cayman Islands. Is that true? If so I can offer some recommendations on instructors etc as many of the Trimix instructors there are personal friends of mine.

Well here is my two senses worth, first to help you consider the source of this advice
I took the Trimix divers level course with IANTD and I am a TDI Trimix instructor.

You have received some good advice here already but I will just reiterate and add a few things.

The most important part of your Trimix course is the diving skills you will learn. Gas management, the physiological effect of helium, equivalent nitrogen depths, etc. all of that will teach you how to perform a dive deeper than 100 feet using helium as an inert gas.

PUG is right when he says you can learn it by reading the material from many sources [I am sure that he didn't imply that it wasn't better to have a person teach you] he was trying to demonstrate the simplicity of it [PUG hopefully I got that right]

But presumably you are learning about Trimix to dive deeper, which will certainly require decompression, which then leaves you diving in an overhead environment. Now we had better be self sufficient and prepared to handle any emergency without surfacing.

Sounds so simple doesn't it. The skills you described have their origins in cave diving true. [By the way I am a full technical cave diver] caving skills are very different yet similar to Trimix skills. [Say multiply the Trimix skills by 100]

The skills in your Trimix course are two fold. One is to add stress to your diving and then perform tasks under stress. The second is to be able to be self sufficient at depth while maintaining perfect buoyancy control [if you have several things go wrong and you are at your 200 foot deco stop [or any stop] you do not want to be moving up and down through the water column while solving the problem.

As good as you are at your diving skills now you will be surprised how you will move 20 feet or more while say doing gas shut down drills with no mask on, heck or even with your mask on. With training and practice you will do the skills without moving even a foot.

In both IANTD and TDI you will experience and be expected to perform skills under stress at or beyond your comfort zone. This is important in skill development as you are bound to have something go wrong someday, and knowing you can solve problems while under a great deal of stress will save you life someday.

Much of you skills are also designed to streamline your swimming abilities. Remember you will be caring at least four tanks with you, and if you are in Cayman you will notice it while swimming across those sand flats for 15 minutes

One thought on which agency. This is where fireworks always fly around here.
IANTD, TDI, GUE, PADI Tec whatever, ANDI. I am sure there are more to choose from.

I have lots of experience with TDI and IANTD, yet limited experience with the others so my views are partially informed. I think that anybody who recommends an agency probably have the same story, it is hard to comment on other agencies unless you have actually taken a course from that agency, not just read about it on the net.

Be cautious of any agency that says theirs is the only one that can teach you properly.
All agencies will provide you the skills you need to perform the dives safely. So after that in my opinion it would come down to picking an instructor by reputation and type of diving they are doing. For instance if they are teaching Trimix diving. Are they performing deep dives using helium? Again if you are in the Caymans I have some friends there that I dive with, we are doing dives deeper than 400 feet on open circuit and 500 on closed. You want to learn from those who have depth of knowledge they can pass on to you. Not that you are planning on that kind of diving but I am trying to show a difference between someone who dives only in class situations and one who is diving in a real environment. [And there is a difference in the real environment, things go wrong there, and the way it is handled can then be passed onto you through first hand experience]

As for what agency to recommend, [given the same instructor teaches for all agencies]
IANTD and TDI are very similar with a couple of exceptions
IANTD – makes you do a lot of swimming, TDI does not, this is to one see if you can swim and two add a level of stress and commitment to complete the program [this is the short reason]
TDI – skills are all done in shallower water, where as IANTD requires you to perform all the skills at all depths.
Otherwise I think they are both the same or at least similar.
These agencies I have little experience with but I have dove with and/or interacted with the instructors
PADI – I think they are to knew to the game, they have good materials, but it feels more like a PADI specialty not a tech course
ANDI – I do not know a whole lot about this agency
GUE – [being cautious here] puts out good divers, but also each of those divers comes out with a very derogatory attitude towards other divers not of their religion. And believe their way or die. I believe they have stopped evolving, stopped testing new techniques and theories. [Except of course for the grand master who then tells his disciples how they will dive.

Well I have been rambling on enough for now. If you have more specific questions don’t hesitate to ask.


ps my daughter wanted to add some faces so here goes
:mean: :jester: :balloon:
 
Aquatec,

I have to strongly disagree with you with the assessment of ANDI.. The agency is rapidly growing especially outside the United States. At my last count ANDI now has around 90 different certifications, which include, open water, oc technical, first aid, cpr ect, rebreathers SCR and CCR, and Hyperbaric chamber operator training..
ANDI standards are very tough especially on instructors there are no administrative crossovers, and becomming an IT is a major accomplishment.. If you look at the heads of most of the technical agencies out there most of those individuals were either ANDI instructors or ANDI instructor trainers.

I teach both TDI and ANDI technical classes and the ANDI requirements are much higher and academically stonger.. TDI recognizes ANDI programs (its right in their Instructor manual) , so when I do a class that is to be issueing a TDI cert I hold my students to the higher standards.

The most difficult TDI exam is probably the extended range exam and its open book(its definately harder than the trimix exams), The ANDI technical diver exam (first tech rating) is closed book, considerably more difficult and covers much more material.

The one thing that sets ANDI apart from the others is both a plus and a minus, All instruction must be facility orientated.. There is no independent instruction allowed. All students that get technical certifications get questioneers from HQ. This way HQ can keep close tabs on its instructors, recreational certs generally get at least 1 questioneer per class. (off hand I can think of 1 current TDI instructor trainer, that was kicked out of ANDI for standards violations which was immediately caught by questioneers)

I can speak about this agency from first hand knowledge, since I have been doing alot of work for them over the past year including their new certification card system. I'll be working their boot at DEMA this year.

For a perspective on other agencies I also did training with Erika, Reg and others at SunsetHouse. I have been diving mix since around '95 and decided to get officially certified just a few years ago.. At home its never been a problem since I have always blended my own gasses but traveling everyone wants to see your card.. Plus I thought it was about time I started teaching some of these classes...
 
Padiscubapro
I could not have put it any better myself. I agree with you 100%.
Oh by the way I am in the middle of AZIMUTH and INSPIRATION course as we speak. Tomorrow morning in the pool and next day on the boat with the INSPIRATION. I managed to get a course on both units.

Bruce
 
ANDI
Sorry about that. I was speaking based on this area, and not the whole world. It is obvious that i do not know much about ANDI and have edited my post to indicate that.

Thanks for the clarification
 
Aquatec,
I didn't want my last post to sound like I was attacking you...
Many people know the name ANDI but don't know much about it.. Frankly you'll never see lots of ANDI facilities around mainly because most dealers wount spend the extra money necessary.. Its all about the buck...

ANDI has a few policies that don't go over well with many dealers..

1) ANDI takes the stance that all equipment used for enriched oxygen service should be dedicated, and many dealers feel this scares away their customers.
2) ANDI has very high gas purity standards(the highest I can find listed) that must be met by all facilities and quarterly testing is mandatory (with a copy of the report to ANDI HQ). Many other agencies either suggest it, or "require" it but never require proof or take sanctions against those that don't do it.
3) ANDI classes are extensive, there are no quickie classes and the instructor has to work for each class.. The ANDI CSU class - The main "nitrox ", ANDI does have an introductory class that can be taught in conjunction with ow, but CSU is the main cert issued. The CSU class takes around 12 hours plus 2 dives, much longer than any other agencies class..

ANDI seems to do well in countries where governmental regulations are already in place.. The most active regions that I can think of is Israel and Germany.. ANDIBK, is a regional licensee of ANDI, and I hear he is quite busy.

Are you going to be going to DEMA if so hopefully we can get together for a few beers..
 
Yes i will be going to DEMA

OK so I have a question for you to better edgucate myself

1 - Is it true that anything over 21% oxygen content needs to be treated the same as pure O2

2 - If the above is true, then why

I am not aware of any other industry that requires such a standard, I shouldn't say industry but organization.
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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