Trip Report for Sat, Aug 15th, Destin off shore

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Without going dSLR, I think the G10 is probably your best bet.


I'm due for a couple new poster sized prints, and I have a few photos that GlenFWB took of me with his G10 that would be ontop of that list.



Want the quality of a dSLR, without the bulk? Give the market another year. Olympus just came out with the EP-1, which is an electronic viewfinder interchangable lense camera(EVIL - yup, yup!). It sports a dSLR sensor in a camera body sized smaller than some prosumer PnS's. Panasonic also has one, but its larger(like a large prosumer PnS). This will be a new segment in cameras and you can bet your ass that other camera companies will have to bring out their own models to compete. For UW photographers, this means you can have uncomprimised quality(read as there's no image quality degradation compared to the current match of dSLRs), with interchangable lenses(matched quality as well), in a MUCH smaller package(bodies and lenses are smaller). Since they're smaller, I'm guessing the housings will be cheaper as well. Not to mention they'll be easier to handle and swim beneath the surface.

I thought I was cool for having a dSLR that I could pair a pancake lense to and stick in my pants pocket(E420, which is tiny compared to my E1). Comparatively, the E420 is huge, and no where near as sexy as the EP1.

Just think about what the rest of the market will be throwing into the mix in a year or so?

 

[Puffer Fish]

By narrow range, do you mean narrow fov (wide aperture) or a number of different settings used together, like a specific film speed + certain f-stop + shutter speed = narrow range of setting?

I've been told that a wet macro lens can fix the lack of fine detail I'm getting with my A570is, but I don't want to drop all that cash if I can get closer to SLR quality images with the G10.

I guess I'm apprehensive about the G10 because I have read some negative reports from divers, but I can't argue with your images, they look great.

You really need to see the large prints... if you get to Destin, there is an 11 x 14 of my large frog fish in the scuba tec shop (right next to the front door.)..it looks nothing like the internet images..far, far better.

Note: I have it in 13 x 19...and it is still razor sharp.

A couple of things... if one gets past the DSLR snob factor...remember I own a 50D, with some very nice glass and a G10...so which takes better pictures?...actually, with a perfect exposure.. in iso 80.. with the lens in the middle of the zoom range and using it wide open.. the G10 is better. ...and image wise, the 50D is at the top of the mid range DSLR's. You have to be shooting raw.. you have to know how to do raw adjustments...in the real world, one almost never shoots there. Normal pictures.. the 50D kicks it's butt. But underwater, it is pretty much all I shoot.

Try to use a G10 like a regular camera, and you will get P&S quality...actually I kind of like the panasonic cameras better.

Just look at the resolution chart, when the G10 is set for that very narrow window... 2400 lines per inch...it makes a D300 look bad. Dynamic range... well in raw the DSLR s better, but in the finished JPEG, they are the same (sRGB only allows so much dynamic range... I hate sRGB by the way).

Here is a bristleworm taken in really dirty water (about 6 ft of vis)...

The whole picture:

Here is a cropped image... down sized to post:

On the original, you can count the bristles on the legs in the center of the animal... the back ones are not as sharp (depth of field issue, and focus point).

We have several other P&S cameras.. and none are as good as even the cropped image is.

So if you get one, you have to understand it limits... they work for me.

Next, you have to understand about 100 different camera setting (actually most good dslr's are worse)... and have one wrong and you get crap...whether is is raw sharpness, or focus point... or exposure setting... don't have them set right and you will not be happy.

But if you do, it is possible to get some amazingly sharp images...

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

the 50D is at the top of the mid range DSLR's. You have to be shooting raw.. you have to know how to do raw adjustments...in the real world, one almost never shoots there.

Spoken like a true Canonite Anyone can argue their point for there favorite mid-range(or any othe range) dSLR. The Nikon lovers will tote the D300, Pentax will go for the K-7, Olympus will go for either the E620/E30/E3 depending on what their needs are, Sony fans will go for whatever new Alpha camera is out there, and Canon fans will go for the D50.

Which is best? Depends on the person, and what there needs are. No camera has everything NONE of them.

I think most people shoot RAW nowadays, I've shot nothing but RAW for the past 5 years.



This has nothing to do with snobbery, its just a about inferior sensors(cropped and downsized bristleworm photo has about the same quality as a cropped shot at 100% viewing from my ancient 5mp E-1). It was just a comment against one of your original replies that MANY will dissagree with. Don't want a dSLR and don't want to sacrifice quality, wait for your favorite manufacturer to come out with their own EVIL camera. Want something as close as possible to a dSLR/EVIL? The G10 is probably your best bet.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Spoken like a true Canonite Anyone can argue their point for there favorite mid-range(or any othe range) dSLR. The Nikon lovers will tote the D300, Pentax will go for the K-7, Olympus will go for either the E620/E30/E3 depending on what their needs are, Sony fans will go for whatever new Alpha camera is out there, and Canon fans will go for the D50.

Which is best? Depends on the person, and what there needs are. No camera has everything NONE of them.

I think most people shoot RAW nowadays, I've shot nothing but RAW for the past 5 years.



This has nothing to do with snobbery, its just a about inferior sensors(cropped and downsized bristleworm photo has about the same quality as a cropped shot at 100% viewing from my ancient 5mp E-1). It was just a comment against one of your original replies that MANY will dissagree with. Don't want a dSLR and don't want to sacrifice quality, wait for your favorite manufacturer to come out with their own EVIL camera. Want something as close as possible to a dSLR/EVIL? The G10 is probably your best bet.

SBM... you missed the meaning on that quote... or I said it in a totally mixed up way.

The raw comment and knowing how to do raw adjustments was refering to the G10... not the 50D. Most people buy a P&S to just take snap shots.. and do not spend the time to learn raw. Canon does not do a very good job with their Jpeg... Fuji on the other hand does...so if Canon gives you raw.. use it.

Your point about cameras is well taken...I am not a Canonite...I would love to own the new Leica S2... and would not be offended if you called me a Leicaite. On a professional level, I have never been a fan of the small 35mm format, let alone the minature sensors used in P&S. When you buy a camera, you are buying a tool...there is no p&s that has better resolution at iso 80 than a G10... and a 50D is ideal if you want to take bird pictures...sucks for a lot of other types of images.

Excellent example... an E-1 is capable of:

Camera Measurement Absolute Res. Extinction Res.
Olympus E-1 Horiz LPH * 1400 * 1700
Vert LPH * 1250 * 1650
5° Diagonal LPH * 1000

A G-10 is capable of:

Camera Measurement Absolute resolution Extinction resolution
Canon PowerShot G10 Horiz LPH 2450 * 2750
Vert LPH 2500 * 2750

The E-620 is capable of:

Camera Measurement Absolute resolution Extinction resolution
Olympus E-620 Horizontal LPH 2200 * 2550
Vertical LPH 2150 * 2550

The spines on the legs, if you measure them, are right at 2,000 LPH...so, no your E-1 was not even close to being able to resolve them....I assume that I lost a bit of resolution due to bad vis and the incompetent holder of the camera.

By the way, the canons are no better...unless we are talking full frame ones.. or the Sony or the Nikon...no 12 meg Dslr can resolve at the same level a G10 can, if you use a very narrow set of setting...setting which on land mostly don't work, but do work underwater (unless you are shallow, in clear water and bright sun).

It is a tool...tiny sensor and all..with a lens mfg'ed with tolerences several times tighter than any other P&S made.

Note: I own a set of resolution charts and used to shoot my own images.. because I did not trust anyone... After a lot of hours and comparisons, DPreview's images and mine were always very close.. so I stopped...

I know, that cannot be true... must be wrong... there is cheating somewhere...if you want, will be happy to let you do the test yourself.. just advise me when and give me enough time to get back to Knoxville to bring the test panels down with me....the G10 is the first Canon I have ever owned...because it is just a tool.

Like the EP1 concept, but image quality has a long way to go...

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

The spines on the legs, if you measure them, are right at 2,000 LPH...so, no your E-1 was not even close to being able to resolve them....I assume that I lost a bit of resolution due to bad vis and the incompetent holder of the camera.

What I'm saying is that a 100% crop looks better/sharper out of my E1(which is 8 years old, ANCIENT in digital camera terms) than your resized crop. Blame it on whatever you'd like, I'll blame the smaller, less sensitive, PnS sensor.

There's no arguement that the G10 has a higher resolution than other cameras, especially an old 5mp camera. I'm saying its sacrificing per pixel sharpness for the additional resolution... meaning, I can get the same print with far less resolution. Resolution isn't the driving power of image quality.



50D for birds? Not bad, but you can get extra reach with a 4/3rds camera. Its kinda nice when a 200mm lense is a 400mm 35mm equivelant. 50D is great for lowlight shots and fast action, sports an such, and an all around good camera anyway. Not my pick for birds, and honestly, I'd take the D300 over it since it meets and exceeds it in alot of aspects nowadays. Resolution, not being a priority of mine after 10mp or so.