True & frustrating

[Teamcasa]

The advantage of getting instruction from an established shop is there may be more insurance available should something go horribly wrong.

If you're down to that particular selling point, it might be time to roll up the carpet and look for something else to do for a while.

Well, I don't understand, but then again, maybe you missed my point.
My point was there are some very good instructors out there. Some work out of shops and some work as independants and that the location does not matter. Maybe I should have said, "One advantage".

I can only speak for NAUI ... but they make no distinction between independents and shop instructors in terms of how much liability insurance ($2 million) you are required to carry. I doubt any other agency that supports independents does either.

Point taken. However, a shop or other business may have additional insurance beyond what is required.

Just so I'm clear, I'm not making an endorsement for shop only instruction as I strongly feel that the instructor him/herself has the single largest impact on my training. Not the agency, shop or gear selection.

 

[Thalassamania]

Honestly, none. However, I would rather get proper training (training in something that can very easily kill me) through an as opposed to somebody that teaches once every three months as a hobby

Go read Bob's profile, or Walter's or mine and then look at our posts and then come back, and with a straight face, tell me that you honestly think that you would better instruction from any dive shop on earth than you'd get from one of we three. Remember, at the, "established site or company," the odds are that you'll be taught by an instructor with under three years' experience.

 

[fireflock]

Well, I don't understand, but then again, maybe you missed my point.

Probably so.

My point was there are some very good instructors out there. Some work out of shops and some work as independants and that the location does not matter. Maybe I should have said, "One advantage".

Of course there are good independent instructors and good shop instructors. Flip the question around though, and ask 'Where am I likely to find a bad/new/inexperienced instructor?'

My guess would be at a shop, but that's just my guess. They can get by on the shop reputation without having to rely on ex-students or their own reputation for new business.

 

[Teamcasa]

Flip the question around though, and ask 'Where am I likely to find a bad/new/inexperienced instructor?'

My guess would be at a shop, but that's just my guess. They can get by on the shop reputation without having to rely on ex-students or their own reputation for new business.

Probably not for long.

 

[SeaLevelScuba]

Just so I'm clear, I'm not making an endorsement for shop only instruction as I strongly feel that the instructor him/herself has the single largest impact on my training. Not the agency, shop or gear selection.

Very true, very true. Good ethical instructors are hard to find

 

[Nemrod]

While I read through the DM manual; i come across "dive industry", "dive consumer" (no, not even customer!), and "dive business".
my first amazement was that no mention of the "dive sport" whatsoever, the term does exist in the OW manual though!
to top it; this "consumer" thing is just irritating; there are still respectable dive clubs apart from some deli-like dive stores; needless to say which one is getting the agency support.

Like I have been saying, the Padification of the scuba diving sport is strictly a means of driving floor sales of high profit items like inflatable air bags (what y'all call a BCD) and snorkels and tank clackers.

You can opt out and join the minimalist movement, non consumerist sport divers.

Worse than that, divers today are so completely "Padified" that they don't even consider diving a sport anymore, it is just a relaxing hobby like sewing or gardening. Opt out, just say no to air bags, merit badges, Padi, the whole shooting match.

N

 

[ssidiv3r]

Go read Bob's profile, or Walter's or mine and then look at our posts and then come back, and with a straight face, tell me that you honestly think that you would better instruction from any dive shop on earth than you'd get from one of we three. Remember, at the, "established site or company," the odds are that you'll be taught by an instructor with under three years' experience.

Hmmm, it sounds to me like you're turning this into a "who's is bigger" contest or "who has more cards". I'm not questioning your dive experience or Bob's, and I'm not trying to say that store-based instructors are the best in the world; I'm simply stating how I would prefer to be trained (hence the wording "I WOULD RATHER" as opposed to "you should"). I understand that there are highly experienced instructors that choose not to work through a shop. However, just because somebody hasn't been instructing for decades and have certifications out the wazoo doesn't mean they aren't capable and competent instructors.

There are two sides to the fence and Bob brought up some points that I had never considered before. My statement was a bit foot-in-mouth, though, on the point of class regularity. I was only trying to differenciate between those that do classes as a hobby as opposed to those that teach on a regular basis; so, I apologize about that misunderstanding as well

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No apology needed ... not to my concern anyway. If my comments got ya thinking about some things from a different perspective, then I'm content.

You don't need to agree with me ... all I ask is that you keep your eyes open. It's a broad activity, and there's lots of different ways to look at it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

Hmmm, it sounds to me like you're turning this into a "who's is bigger" contest or "who has more cards". I'm not questioning your dive experience or Bob's, and I'm not trying to say that store-based instructors are the best in the world; I'm simply stating how I would prefer to be trained (hence the wording "I WOULD RATHER" as opposed to "you should"). I understand that there are highly experienced instructors that choose not to work through a shop. However, just because somebody hasn't been instructing for decades and have certifications out the wazoo doesn't mean they aren't capable and competent instructors.

There are two sides to the fence and Bob brought up some points that I had never considered before. My statement was a bit foot-in-mouth, though, on the point of class regularity. I was only trying to differenciate between those that do classes as a hobby as opposed to those that teach on a regular basis; so, I apologize about that misunderstanding as well

Have you ever received any scuba training from an independent instructor?

Exactly what experience or knowledge do you have about independent scuba instructors?

 

[ssidiv3r]

No apology needed ... not to my concern anyway. If my comments got ya thinking about some things from a different perspective, then I'm content.

You don't need to agree with me ... all I ask is that you keep your eyes open. It's a broad activity, and there's lots of different ways to look at it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks, I'll do my best to keep an open mind in the future

Have you ever received any scuba training from an independent instructor?

Exactly what experience or knowledge do you have about independent scuba instructors?

I haven't recieved any trainging from an independent because up to this point I've had a store available and prefer store based instructors. Until I get any kind of training from an independent instructor I'm just going to stick with what I know and prefer, unless an opportunity arrises where I can take a class that my shop isn't offering but an independent instructor is.

None so far. All the instructors I know are store-based