Unethical?

[Cave Diver]

pt40fathoms once bubbled...


Boy, that's sure a lot of assumptions you've made there. I must say that I can see your point of view, however, lets try this little scenario on for size and see if fits.

M = Manufacturer
I = Instructor
DS = Dive Shop

(phone) Brrrring.

<snip>

So as you can see, this may have started out as a completely normal transaction. All this is of course speculation, however with the absence of complete details and hard facts, speculation is all we have.

:rofL:

 

[gazzahawkes]

hello,
In my experience working in dive shops over the last years policy for equipment sales varies from store normally policy is determined for full time or freelance staff on starting work.

attitude varies between dive shop owners the smarter ones will offer some incentive to instructors for eqp sales which to me makes sense.

many instructors feel that equipment sales originate with them after all students are prepared to trust there life with instructors and therefore trust there advice on equipment normally sticking with the same brand the instructor uses.

The problem comes when dive school owners offer an insulting rate or worse none for sales generated, otherwise what is the incentive to go the extra mile,I have also run a dive retail store and therefore am aware of the markup on most products and feel that by including the instructor in your profit margin means everyone wins the customer for getting quality advice from there mentor the school owner from increased sales and the instructor for the extra income.

I do agree that its unethical to go behind the owners back but my question is why was they forced to go this route.?

if it was simply because the instructor put in the ground work for no reward what so ever then good luck to them maybe the owner will rethink there policy.

kind regards gary

 

[Diving Dave]

You people who think this isn't stealing, just another hunky dory under the counter, behind the owner's back, what he doesn't know won't hurt him deal, really need to get a clue.

 

[jrg]

It doesn't become tax evasion until April 15 when he files his state income tax. Most states make you pay "use tax" on any item you purchaced out of state or without any sales tax.

(That includes internet mail-order purchases, BTW).

 

[scubasean]

jrg once bubbled...
It doesn't become tax evasion until April 15 when he files his state income tax. Most states make you pay "use tax" on any item you purchaced out of state or without any sales tax.

(That includes internet mail-order purchases, BTW).

Are you sure about this? Do you have a list of those 26 or more "most" states? I'd like to see it.

And, is it really filed on schedule with the income tax? I know sales tax is sometimes paid in quarterly installments, but I can't recall what the rules are on deadline to pay.

But we digress...

Thanks,

Sean

 

[rab]

Well, here's two of them. I file in Ohio and I did include use tax for a large purchase (laptop) on the internet. Strangely, the vendor collected OH tax on the value of the extended warranty service policy, but not on the value of the hardware. I have co-workers who live in Kentucky who have filed use-tax because they do a significant amount of on-line purchases.

2 down, 24 (or more) to go...

-Rob

 

[mech]

There is not enough information to really make a proper desission.
All we heard was one sided and in my oppinion lacking.
I stand by my earlier statement about theft.
In my shop I have more stuff thasn I know what to do with.
If one of my guys asked for something like say a wrench,tape measure or a chair. I'd give it to him,but if he just took it....it would be theft.
So what if the LDS was shorting this guy on pay or not keeping promises?
Would it be wrong for the guy to make it right?
Like they say there are three sides to a story.....

 

[scubagirl15]

Here's an update on my original post.

In the interest of protecting the identity of both the dive store and the instructor especially, the update is this.

The order occurred at a trade show. The instructor asked for and was given permission by the store to attend the show. Because it was a trade show, the manufacturer rep on site assumed the instructor was an employee and offered up order forms for some equipment they were demo-ing; evidently the store's usual rep did not make that same assumption, so called the store for verification.

The instructor pleaded ignorance about the protocols for ordering and billing from the manufacturer. The dive shop owner heard the instructor out and decided to extend the benefit of doubt; they agreed to call it a misunderstanding and shook hands on it.

I'm glad the dive shop owner kept an open mind and hope the instructor will prove worthy.

Thanks for everyone's comments on this thread...I learned a lot.

 

[netmage]

scubagirl15 once bubbled...
Here's an update on my original post.

In the interest of protecting the identity of both the dive store and the instructor especially, the update is this.

The order occurred at a trade show. The instructor asked for and was given permission by the store to attend the show. Because it was a trade show, the manufacturer rep on site assumed the instructor was an employee and offered up order forms for some equipment they were demo-ing; evidently the store's usual rep did not make that same assumption, so called the store for verification.

The instructor pleaded ignorance about the protocols for ordering and billing from the manufacturer. The dive shop owner heard the instructor out and decided to extend the benefit of doubt; they agreed to call it a misunderstanding and shook hands on it.

I'm glad the dive shop owner kept an open mind and hope the instructor will prove worthy.

Thanks for everyone's comments on this thread...I learned a lot.

Well - this changes things quite a bit - I think....
Having been to trade shows - offers like this abound - and unless one of the forms explicitly stated someting to the effect of "put your dealership umber in" I see no harm and no foul.... Trade shows exist for the manufacturers to push their wares and they will do so with brute force if necessary...

If they were offering up demo orders - I bet they offered them to folks that wern't authorized dealers as well - to entice them to get to know their products... So what makes this instructor any difference from any joe who just walked off the street....

 

[VTernovski]

I have to agree... Trade shows are a totally different thing... Store Owner was wrong of accusing the Instructor... I bet the store owner gave the Instructir a batch to get in the show which bears the name of the strore? this alone is an implied authorization, since he practically was representing this store for the owner... I see nothing wrong with this.