User replaceable battery vs rechargeable?

[Lorenzoid]

I said North.

Everyone likes Canadians. Shearwater is Canadian.

To get back on topic, I'll add that I just sent my 10 year-old Petrel 2s off for "Regular Maintenance," as Dive-Tronix calls it. I hadn't really given much thought to the possibility of the bezel o-ring and pressure sensor o-ring deteriorating over time. Those are things that are really not user-serviceable. I was less reluctant to do this after I saw on Dive-Tronix's website how easy they make it. You don't have to inquire with them--just click on the "Regular Maintenance" button, and you can print off an RMA to enclose in the USPS Priority Mail box.

I do prefer the user-replaceable, widely available AA-type battery feature of the Petrel/Perdix. To each his own.

 

[scubaozy]

To get back on topic, I'll add that I just sent my 10 year-old Petrel 2s off for "Regular Maintenance," as Dive-Tronix calls it. I hadn't really given much thought to the possibility of the bezel o-ring and pressure sensor o-ring deteriorating over time. Those are things that are really not user-serviceable. I was less reluctant to do this after I saw on Dive-Tronix's website how easy they make it. You don't have to inquire with them--just click on the "Regular Maintenance" button, and you can print off an RMA to enclose in the USPS Priority Mail box.

Parts you mention are not consumable parts like brake pads in a car. If you handle and store your dc correctly, nothing will happen to them in 20 years. I have a very old mares tutor using AA it must be 25 years old, still original o-ring on the battery cap, still watertight. I have several strobes decades old they all have permanent seals in the front face, no manual states they need to be replaced. All those you mention actually makes negative impression of a brand, screaming bs.
I think some folks are lacking empathy. If in your region the product and services are cheap or accessible (and you have tons of money because you live in one of the richest countries in the world) does not mean it is everywhere the same.
Apple battery replacement are costing in Europe 50% more. I tossed away an ipad because battery replacement was costing 150 and new device 350, this is done on purpose, I am not happy to throw something away but to repair it is also not making sense financially. Additionally, I already tried to explain the hurdles of shipping devices over borders, so, SW can be great company but as long as they do not have a great service in my location and their products have "built in" service intervals, its an absolutely no go. I travel a lot for diving, just like many here, I do notice many Europeans still stick with mainstream brands because of this.
I am happy EU will finally put a stop onto this, at least the devices that are meant to be sold here will have to get a consumer friendly design. We will see whether companies will create different products for different markets or comply with EU standards for all their products. If you insist having consumer unfriendly devices, perhaps you can go out and protest, burn the eu flag, chain your self at the gates white house or storm the capitol.

Everyone likes Canadians.

Not sure this holds well in global south, Canada followed US on nearly all illegal wars. So, the ones in the receiving end probably would disagree to that.
I do not know many Canadians but the one I know was called Stephen Elop (we called him Flop) and he did not make a great impression to say the least. Some considers him worst ceo of the century.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Parts you mention are not consumable parts like brake pads in a car. If you handle and store your dc correctly, nothing will happen to them in 20 years. I have a very old mares tutor using AA it must be 25 years old, still original o-ring on the battery cap, still watertight. I have several strobes decades old they all have permanent seals in the front face, no manual states they need to be replaced. All those you mention actually makes negative impression of a brand, screaming bs.

I have read that o-rings, even static o-rings like these, have a limited lifespan. Sure, stored in a bag they may last decades, but these things are exposed to some water, and some, like the bezel o-ring/gasket on my Petrel, may also be exposed to some sunlight, I suppose. Some dive computer o-rings may last 20 or more years, but I think it's far from certain they will. The decision is whether to risk having an expensive repair a few years from now or get peace of mind now.

 

[stuartv]

A manufacturer that specifies a service interval could be "bs". They could just be covering their a$$ and trying to generate service revenue.

OR, it could be an indicator that the company has enough knowledge and experience to have determined a reliable MTBF and is using that knowledge to help their customers avoid costly repairs.

Shearwater doesn't make any money when their computers get serviced. Ultimately, it probably costs them money. A computer that died from a flood is a good opportunity to sell the user a new computer. One that gets serviced and never dies is a customer that never buys from them again.

Of course, you are entitled to whatever opinion you want regarding Shearwater.

 

[leadduck]

Batteries in devices with an internal charger (Qi, USB, ...) are usually not user-replaceable for safety reasons. The notable exception is the HW "OSTC plus" dive computer, and the accident happened at a trade show in 2019: somebody inserted a non-rechargeable battery, misconfigured the device type as chargeable, and put the dive computer onto the Qi charging pad. After several hours, it exploded and one person was injured. It is a great computer, unique that you have the choice between chargeable and non-chargeable battery, user-replaceable, and has a built-in Qi charger. Drawback is that it's not foolproof.

 

[scubaozy]

I have read that o-rings, even static o-rings like these, have a limited lifespan. Sure, stored in a bag they may last decades, but these things are exposed to some water, and some, like the bezel o-ring/gasket on my Petrel, may also be exposed to some sunlight, I suppose. Some dive computer o-rings may last 20 or more years, but I think it's far from certain they will. The decision is whether to risk having an expensive repair a few years from now or get peace of mind now.

I wore a Suunto Stinger for 20 years every single day with maximum abuse, did 2100 dives on it, nothing leaked on the sensor. You should be more weary of having a working equipment being tweaked unnecessarily, that will increase probability of a failure way more.
Components generally they last multiple times of their designed specs under reasonable conditions. I recently replaced some capacitors in my guitar amp, they are rated for 1000hrs at specified temperature (85 deg cel). Surely they did hold 10 fold. Most of the Tvs have similar el. capacitors, if samsung told you that every 5 years you need to service your tv, would you not raise an eyebrow?

OR, it could be an indicator that the company has enough knowledge and experience to have determined a reliable MTBF and is using that knowledge to help their customers avoid costly repairs.

Shearwater doesn't make any money when their computers get serviced. Ultimately, it probably costs them money. A computer that died from a flood is a good opportunity to sell the user a new computer. One that gets serviced and never dies is a customer that never buys from them again.

Again, do you send your tv every x years to the service that may avoid a potential costly repair "wink wink"?
I was not the one starting with Shearwater, you brought their service intervals into the picture. I also admire (from what I hear) their after sales service. If I was in the market for full sized diving computer, I would consider one of their models with an user replaceable battery. But I would not send it to service as instructed because service every 2 years does not make sense. Factor that to a 20 years ownership; 150 x 10 services= 1500$!!!

 

[Lorenzoid]

If I was in the market for full sized diving computer, I would consider one of their models with an user replaceable battery. But I would not send it to service as instructed because service every 2 years does not make sense. Factor that to a 20 years ownership; 150 x 10 services= 1500$!!!

My takeaway from the side discussion of preemptively servicing dive computers is that whether the recommended service interval is 2 years or 5 years or 10 years is not the point. The individual user can start with the manufacturer's recommendation, weigh it against the perceived negatives, and reach their own judgment. Some risk-takers might be okay with doing nothing for 20 years. Others might feel less comfortable at 10 years. Some who really depend on their computer and would feel inconvenienced by surprises might send it in every 5 years. Two years seems very conservative to me, but maybe that is exactly what Shearwater intends.

Comparisons with TVs and guitar amplifiers seem silly to me. A dive computer malfunction could affect safety in some cases.

 

[scubaozy]

My takeaway from the side discussion of preemptively servicing dive computers is that whether the recommended service interval is 2 years or 5 years or 10 years is not the point. The individual user can start with the manufacturer's recommendation, weigh it against the perceived negatives, and reach their own judgment. Some risk-takers might be okay with doing nothing for 20 years. Others might feel less comfortable at 10 years. Some who really depend on their computer and would feel inconvenienced by surprises might send it in every 5 years. Two years seems very conservative to me, but maybe that is exactly what Shearwater intends.

Comparisons with TVs and guitar amplifiers seem silly to me. A dive computer malfunction could affect safety in some cases.

Well if it is about safety, than you must fulfill the manufacturers recommendation. Add 1500$ on top of Peregrine (or whatever model you have), ka-ching.
Or do not argue safety if you did not follow the instructions, you are taking an a la carte approach to manufacturers instructions and your own safety. What is silly is to recommend a service every second year for a dive computer.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Well if it is about safety, than you must fulfill the manufacturers recommendation. Add 1500$ on top of Peregrine (or whatever model you have), ka-ching.
Or do not argue safety if you did not follow the instructions, you are taking an a la carte approach to manufacturers instructions and your own safety. What is silly is to recommend a service every second year for a dive computer.

An analogy could be made with regulators. Most regulator manufacturers recommend service every year or two years, but plenty of us divers service our regs based on our own knowledge and experience.

 

[scubaozy]

An analogy could be made with regulators. Most regulator manufacturers recommend service every year or two years, but plenty of us divers service our regs based on our own knowledge and experience.

Not relevant. You were using argument of aging o-rings and risk of failure for justifying such service intervals. You are now making a case why you should not follow that advice.