using a pony bottle to extend bottom times?

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unfortunately I cant...everytime I drain my tank...the scuba shop charges 20 dollars for a visual inspection.

.... you need to find a shop with some integrity ... yours is robbing you.

As to the point of learning how to plan your dive/manage your gas, there's an article on my website you may find useful ... NWGratefulDiver.com

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Wookie, this is a purely hypothetical, but what would you consider someone diving mini doubles? I'm starting to lean that direction even for recreational dives as well as I enjoy the redundancy and similarity in setup to my normal doubles rig, From an "advanced" diver standpoint, a set of twin 40's or 50's makes more sense to me than a single 80. Not that your answer would prevent me from diving with you if I ever make it down that way, just curious what the answer from a captain's perspective wold be. I totally understand if a blanket "no doubles" policy exists on your recreational charters.

I will explain the history of the rule. The Fling and Spree were patterned after the California liveaboards. When first in business, we speared, we slept in sleeping bags on the open deck, and you brought as many cylinders as you wanted and piled them on the deck. A weekend trip to the Flower Gardens was $215 or so, and the boat would take 50 divers if that many wanted to go. We'd just put on another case of eggs. Doubles, not a problem.

As time passed, we got a covered deck, installed bunks, limited trips to 34 passengers, and set up dive benches on the main deck. On the dive benches there were 40 dive stations, 34 for guests and 6 for crew. That made things a little tight, and we started attracting a more genteel clientele, although divers were still tough. The spearing ended the day the former owner stepped out of the house and on his brand new deck carpet was a big stinky amberjack someone had speared with all of the requisite blood and slime. That was the last day anyone had a speargun on either the Fling or the Spree.

At about the same time, some group from Louisiana wanted to bring doubles. No sweat the owner says, but they won't fit in the tank rack, you will have to secure them against a rail. No problem the shop says. Shop shows up with 15 hoovers in double LP 130s that they had all bought special just for this trip. They figured out the first day that the air compressor could in no way keep up with 20 single 80's and 15 double 130s in a surface interval. Then, the folks in doubles wanted bench space to kit up. The folks in singles (Burton's third law of diving: divers will expand to take up all available space) got their masks smashed, regulator hoses kinked, it was just a mess. Then, it was rough on the way back in. Since the diving was over,the beering had begun, and the doubles were not properly secured to the rail. Some sets of double 130s were sliding around on the back deck and banging into other folks stuff. The final straw was that a number of manifolds were bent in the banging tanks and the owners wanted the boat to replace the manifolds.

That was the last time doubles were allowed on a sport trip. What we found was that it doesn't make any difference. Folks who routinely dive doubles aren't really keen liveaboard customers anyway. Liveaboards operate on a schedule. Since the majority of liveaboard divers are all about the number of dives, and we don't limit bottom time, it makes no sense to disrupt the normal routine of the majority of the customers to satisfy one who may not come anyway. When someone wants to put together a doubles trip, we welcome them and their 17 friends who want to dive doubles (See what I did there, I cut 6 folks off the boat and raised the price a little). We don't have trouble with room on the boat, everyone gets a fair amount of bench space, and life is good. When TS&M goes to the red sea, she charters the whole boat, they dive doubles and scooters, and the whole boat is dedicated to what they want to do, not what the 2 strays on the boat want to do, because there are not 2 strays on that boat. Same when she goes to channel islands. They charter the whole boat, bring their doubles and scooters. I think they limited their last trip on a 34 passenger boat to 21 or so. We do that too, if someone wants the whole boat. Add Helium has the whole boat week after next to go dive 300 foot deep wrecks. We offer those charters, but they aren't your standard recreational charter.

Now, when we talk tiny doubles, if you mean something like the old AL triples, the UDS-1 system, I've had a few folks bring them and bungee them to the rail. They aren't obtrusive. They aren't very practical, but whatever. If you are talking twin 50's with an isolation manifold, they are the same size as HP100s, or 120s. You'd get more gas with a 120 and a pony for redundancy.
 
Not filled to 3600 psi...
 
When TS&M goes to the red sea, she charters the whole boat, they dive doubles and scooters, and the whole boat is dedicated to what they want to do, not what the 2 strays on the boat want to do, because there are not 2 strays on that boat. Same when she goes to channel islands. They charter the whole boat, bring their doubles and scooters. I think they limited their last trip on a 34 passenger boat to 21 or so. We do that too, if someone wants the whole boat. Add Helium has the whole boat week after next to go dive 300 foot deep wrecks. We offer those charters, but they aren't your standard recreational charter.

While it's your right to set whatever policy you like ... and I'll respect that policy if I want to dive your boat ... the above isn't quite accurate.

I was on that Red Sea boat last September. We had 19 divers on board. Six were in backmount doubles. Two (including myself) were in sidemount doubles. Two were on rebreathers. The other nine were all recreational singles divers. There was a mixture of tech and recreational diving at some sites. Time limits were established for the tech divers, based on a set schedule for making sure everyone got their dives in. Everyone was expected to manage their own gear responsibly, and in proper consideration for others on the boat. And while the majority were from the same group, we had divers on board who we never met until the day the trip started.

Part of successful organization is policy, and the management of those policies. The other part is setting reasonable rules and expectations, and treating people as though they're capable of behaving like adults. Maybe that's not possible with the typical Florida clientele, but it seemed to work well for us for the 10 days we spent on the Tala ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Part of successful organization is policy, and the management of those policies. The other part is setting reasonable rules and expectations, and treating people as though they're capable of behaving like adults. Maybe that's not possible with the typical Florida clientele, but it seemed to work well for us for the 10 days we spent on the Tala ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

If I remember the story correctly, you chartered the whole boat, so you all knew what you were expecting going in. Doubles, rebreathers, etc. Had you had a mixed group, some from the UK, some from GUE, and y'all, all diving the boat's general rules, you might not have had the same results. Most of my trips are Least Common Denominator trips, so that's how we set the rules. When someone wants a charter, their boat, their rules (within reason and insurance company rules).
 
I belonged to a dive club in SoCal as a satellite member from NorCal.
They charter the whole boat and the diving is advanced sites. They cater to the top denominator and if you can't keep up you don't go, and if you lie about your skill level you sit on the bench.
The club sets the policy that there are no tech divers with doubles, stages and scooters because they A) They take up too much room, and B) the dive becomes all about them and their profiles. That club likes to do 6 dives a day at 6 different sites so it's all about having your sh_t together and staying on track.
All the members are long time veterans and the trips are mostly hunting for lobster (in season) or spear fishing, scallop hunting. There are many photogs too. The club will do tech dives to some of the deeper reefs with doubles but It is understood that those are special trips and whoever signs up knows that ahead of time. Everybody needs to be on the same page when diving with that club on one of their charters or it becomes a free for all.
So I totally see Frank's point..
 
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Sidemount is okay...right Frank ;-)
 
Sidemount is okay...right Frank ;-)

Sidemount is OK on a trip where doubles are allowed, and welcomed. Ask Netdoc after his end of July trip....
 
Most of our charter boats here in Puget Sound are okay with people in doubles, or people slinging bottles. We've done two trips to God's Pocket, and they came to the conclusion that doubles, particularly LP doubles, are actually rather nice, because it simplifies their fill issues. I've dived off the Peace boat in Ventura a number of times -- they're okay with doubles, as was the Specter, when I dove off that as an open boat with a broad spectrum of customers.

It's each boat or operator's policy. It's always a good idea to check ahead of time if you want to do something the operator isn't expecting.
 
Most of our charter boats here in Puget Sound are okay with people in doubles, or people slinging bottles. We've done two trips to God's Pocket, and they came to the conclusion that doubles, particularly LP doubles, are actually rather nice, because it simplifies their fill issues. I've dived off the Peace boat in Ventura a number of times -- they're okay with doubles, as was the Specter, when I dove off that as an open boat with a broad spectrum of customers.

It's each boat or operator's policy. It's always a good idea to check ahead of time if you want to do something the operator isn't expecting.
Both the Peace and the Spectre will allow doubles on their open boat trips, but not all private trips will allow them depending on the charter masters policy.
And when diving doubles on open boats they tell people with doubles to be respectful of time and keep the dive to an hour or less.
 

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