cornfed
Mindless lemming
Ah well... you win some, you lose some!
Vegetarian Divers?
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Ah well... you win some, you lose some!
lragsac
Guest
Yes, perhaps you're right. Then maybe there's nothing wrong with eating your family members. There were/are cultures that engaged in cannibalism. Humans are made out of meat. At any rate, the emphasis was on MY cat, since he's my bud...
Your life quite clearly does not and likely will never depend on that field. If you saw a human stealing some crops you would not shoot them, would you? Or am I missing something? Is that the kind of trigger-happy American attitude we've seen recently in Iraq?
Oh yes, it was: silly me.
Exactly: we can grow and import crops: we don't have to rely on barbarically slaughtering and eating innocent animals.
If you'd read my posts, you'd understand that humans - who once had to survive on meat - now know better than to slaugther innocent animals for food.
That statement is broadly true. Furthermore, it was aimed at one member, so if anything, I should owe him an apology. However, his comment was an arrogant one, so I feel that an apology is not in order. Moreover, as illustrated by quotes like 'We don't care,' you yourself are behaving like an arrogant pig.
Why do you so arrogantly asume that you're right? You can't even run up to the moral highground here because you slaughter and maim innocent creatures for food.
Phish-phood
Guest
I am standing by my belief that it is not wrong to kill animals as long as you are not doing it for sport and just because you can.
All you vegetarians, I totally respect your point of view and your rights to make the choice not to eat meat.
Boltfish you really are not seeing the whole picture here.
You say us humans have no need to kill animals because we can grow and import our own crops and have no need for meat.
You are partly right but very definitely partly wrong.
Humans have always survived on a diet that consisted of a balance between plants and meat. At some point our ability to hunt meat became better and our diet gravitated towards meat as our main staple food. A human appendix original function was in the break down of cellulose in plants but due to the decline in human consumption of green plants the appendix has evolved to a point where it is no longer necessary to use it. Rabbits however still use theirs. So at some point, yes, humans survived on a diet of more plants than meat, but never on plants alone.
My point and the point I will stand by until the day I die is that this planet is held together by a very very fine balance and humans are the *only* cause of the upset in that balance whether it is for a good cause or not. You ask windwalker whether he would kill a human he saw stealing crops from his fields. What about rabbits? Rabbits are the bane of every farmers life because thanks to short sightedness of a lot of people you are not allowed to kill them in many places and as such their population is growing unchecked and they are destroying farmers crops.
By your reckoning we could leave animals alone and grow our crops and quite happily survive. It just isn't true, theoretically you may be able to survive on vegetarian food quite well but physically the planet would not be able to sustain a population of vegetarians anymore than it would be able to sustain a population of total meat eaters. You have to find the balance.
Whatever way you slice it animals have to be killed at some point and personally rather I ate them than left them to rot and waste.
People here have accepted your views and respect them, the least you could do is respect their views. Each and every person has a view on vegetarianism, what that view is based on is each persons own experiences and to try and tell them they are wrong because it doesn't tally with your own version of things is not right.
And to make bold and sweeping generalisations about Americans like you have done is uninformed and rude and very insulting.
All you vegetarians, I totally respect your point of view and your rights to make the choice not to eat meat.
Boltfish you really are not seeing the whole picture here.
You say us humans have no need to kill animals because we can grow and import our own crops and have no need for meat.
You are partly right but very definitely partly wrong.
Humans have always survived on a diet that consisted of a balance between plants and meat. At some point our ability to hunt meat became better and our diet gravitated towards meat as our main staple food. A human appendix original function was in the break down of cellulose in plants but due to the decline in human consumption of green plants the appendix has evolved to a point where it is no longer necessary to use it. Rabbits however still use theirs. So at some point, yes, humans survived on a diet of more plants than meat, but never on plants alone.
My point and the point I will stand by until the day I die is that this planet is held together by a very very fine balance and humans are the *only* cause of the upset in that balance whether it is for a good cause or not. You ask windwalker whether he would kill a human he saw stealing crops from his fields. What about rabbits? Rabbits are the bane of every farmers life because thanks to short sightedness of a lot of people you are not allowed to kill them in many places and as such their population is growing unchecked and they are destroying farmers crops.
By your reckoning we could leave animals alone and grow our crops and quite happily survive. It just isn't true, theoretically you may be able to survive on vegetarian food quite well but physically the planet would not be able to sustain a population of vegetarians anymore than it would be able to sustain a population of total meat eaters. You have to find the balance.
Whatever way you slice it animals have to be killed at some point and personally rather I ate them than left them to rot and waste.
People here have accepted your views and respect them, the least you could do is respect their views. Each and every person has a view on vegetarianism, what that view is based on is each persons own experiences and to try and tell them they are wrong because it doesn't tally with your own version of things is not right.
And to make bold and sweeping generalisations about Americans like you have done is uninformed and rude and very insulting.
There are many kinds of animals which we do not eat and their numbers do not seem to be spiralling out of control, so why would chicken numbers do that if we did not eat them? In what way are you qualified to predict animal growth numbers without the 'intervention' of humans?
As for the environmental impact of not eating meat, why don't you have a look at the current impact produced by mass-farming animals:
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But, this is not my point. My point, and heed this well, is that it is fundamentally cruel and inhumane to butcher animals in the way that we do at the moment. For that reason, I am a vegetarian. Perhaps if we let our animals live a long and happy ('free range') life before we killed them then I would eat meat. Unfortunately, that is not the case:
A male calf born to a dairy cow - what does a farmer do with this by-product of the milk industry? If he is not immediately slaughtered or factory-raised, he is made into fancy veal. To this end, he is locked up in a stall and chained by his neck to prevent him from turning around for his entire life. He is fed a special diet without iron or roughage. He is injected with antibiotics and hormones to keep him alive and to make him grow. He is kept in darkness except for feeding time. The result? A nearly full-grown animal with flesh as tender and milky-white as a newborn's. The beauty of the system, from the standpoint of the veal industry, is that meat from today's "crate veal" still fetches the premium price it always did when such flesh came only from a baby calf. But now each animal yields much more meat.
Is that humane??
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For 101 Reasons to become a vegetarian, click here
As for the environmental impact of not eating meat, why don't you have a look at the current impact produced by mass-farming animals:
- Water pollution. The manure and sewage from stockyards, chicken factories, and other feeding facilities can pollute water supplies.
- Air pollution. "Thirty million tons of methane--a gas that contributes to global warming--come from manure in sewage ponds or heaps."
- Soil erosion. "Nearly 40 percent of the world's--and more than 70 percent of U.S.--grain production is fed to livestock. "For each pound of meat, poultry, eggs, and milk we produce, farm fields lose about five pounds of topsoil."
- Water depletion. "An estimated half of the grain and hay that's fed to beef cattle is grown on irrigated land. "It takes about 390 gallons of water to produce a pound of beef."
- Energy use. "It takes almost ten times more energy to produce and transport livestock than vegetables."
- Overgrazing. "About ten percent of the arid West has been turned into a desert by livestock." But some of that land couldn't be used for much else.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But, this is not my point. My point, and heed this well, is that it is fundamentally cruel and inhumane to butcher animals in the way that we do at the moment. For that reason, I am a vegetarian. Perhaps if we let our animals live a long and happy ('free range') life before we killed them then I would eat meat. Unfortunately, that is not the case:
A male calf born to a dairy cow - what does a farmer do with this by-product of the milk industry? If he is not immediately slaughtered or factory-raised, he is made into fancy veal. To this end, he is locked up in a stall and chained by his neck to prevent him from turning around for his entire life. He is fed a special diet without iron or roughage. He is injected with antibiotics and hormones to keep him alive and to make him grow. He is kept in darkness except for feeding time. The result? A nearly full-grown animal with flesh as tender and milky-white as a newborn's. The beauty of the system, from the standpoint of the veal industry, is that meat from today's "crate veal" still fetches the premium price it always did when such flesh came only from a baby calf. But now each animal yields much more meat.
Is that humane??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For 101 Reasons to become a vegetarian, click here
Phish-phood
Guest
Botlfish, like I said your points are well made and well taken by everyone on the board, but you just don't seem to be doing anyone else the courtesey of appreciating that we all have different views.
You ask what my qualifications are yet all you do is paste quotes form various sources which support your own beliefs? What are your qualifications?
I have my opinions and theories for my own reasons, formed mostly from extensive reading in the area and from my own experiences. I could back up my theories with any number of papers, quotes and references is I so choose. The fact that I am also a qualified scientist who is doing further training in the study of populations, it's control and effect helps aswell.
You ask what my qualifications are yet all you do is paste quotes form various sources which support your own beliefs? What are your qualifications?
I have my opinions and theories for my own reasons, formed mostly from extensive reading in the area and from my own experiences. I could back up my theories with any number of papers, quotes and references is I so choose. The fact that I am also a qualified scientist who is doing further training in the study of populations, it's control and effect helps aswell.
idahodivers
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14 years being a vegetarian, just OW certified and not planning on changing my diet since starting to dive! 
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