Very Frank BP/Wing VS BCD Question

[randyjoy]

Just thumbing through some of the recent dive magazines...lots of ads for BC's, not one single ad (or picture) or anyone with a BP/Wing setup.

 

[scubatexastony]

Do you recommend them for students in your OW courses? Or just to more experianced users? Is there any reason a newbie (I took my open water 5 yrs ago didn't doo any diving since then and am reentering the sport) like me should avoid the wings setup?

My wife recently completed her OW and she's sporting a Halcyon 27# with the 10#pockets. (I did switch the standard harness with a Dive-rite deluxe harness with chest strap). She likes it more than the BC (vest-style) she trained in and says it just "hugs" her body and doesn't ride up. You can add a pocket(s) to the waist strap, which btw you can access easier than most BC's placement. (nice place to stow the camera when not in use, or food for the fishies)
Like others said, try em both, make your own decision.

tony

ps. did I mention KISS?

 

[DaveO]

Like Java, the originator of the thread, I've been lurking on this board for a while and soaking up information. I *really* appreciate the thoughts and comments in this thread, since I'm trying to decide what equipment to buy.

There's an LDS near me that carries Halcyon, and I'm headed there this week to see if I can't rent a BP/Wings rig and dive it

I've seen the phrase DIR, and when I looked it up all I could find was "Doing It Right", which sounded like a marketing ploy. In the context of this thread, particularly, it seems to have a wider-reaching connotation. What's the deal?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[java]

Originally posted by DaveO

<snip/>
I've seen the phrase DIR, and when I looked it up all I could find was "Doing It Right", which sounded like a marketing ploy. In the context of this thread, particularly, it seems to have a wider-reaching connotation. What's the deal?

Found the following link at the halcyon.net web site:

http://www.dirquest.com/about_dir.shtml
I think it answers the question

 

[java]

Originally posted by randyjoy
Just thumbing through some of the recent dive magazines...lots of ads for BC's, not one single ad (or picture) or anyone with a BP/Wing setup.

I guess thats one reason the price is not through the roof. But I imagine that others will "clone" the Halcyon wings that seem to be the best based on what I read, promote it and get more people into the idea

 

[java]

Originally posted by scubatexastony


My wife recently completed her OW and she's sporting a Halcyon 27# with the 10#pockets. (I did switch the standard harness with a Dive-rite deluxe harness with chest strap).
ps. did I mention KISS?

• Halcyon 27# I am assuming is the pioneer 27 from Halcyon. Am I right?
• What are 10# pockets?
• You say you switched the harness for a dive-right. Was this from a Halcyon harness?
• What exactly was the reason for the switch?
• Is the BP a Halcyon?
  [/list=a]
  
  Thanks

 

[Dee]

Originally posted by java

• Halcyon 27# I am assuming is the pioneer 27 from Halcyon. Am I right?
• What are 10# pockets?
• You say you switched the harness for a dive-right. Was this from a Halcyon harness?
• What exactly was the reason for the switch?
• Is the BP a Halcyon?
  [/list=a]
  
  Thanks

• 
  
  Tony can correct me if I'm wrong but since I helped in the process I'll try to answer since he's not around right now...
  
  1) Yes, Halcyon #27 Pioneer wings
  2) ACB+ Halcyon weight intergrated pockets. Rated to hold #10 each.
  3) Buying the seperate pieces, it wasn't actually a switch FROM a Halcyon but rather an INSTEAD OF thing.
  4) He used a Dive Rite Deluxe harness because the D-rings integrated into the webbing provided a pivot point so the fit was better, for a woman, going under the arms.
  5) BP is a FredT SS short

 

[Jeblis]

Ahhh I think I'm just going to run out and buy a HUB system

This industry is full of solutions looking for a problem.
The extra gear and features which turn you into a christmas tree can present a safety hazard...and well you look like a christmas tree.

 

[large_diver]

Java,

Some more thoughts on "why BP/wings for rec diving"....caveat, I've had my BP for 5 dives......these are "BP newbie" impressions:

PROS:
- Less restrictive -- when rigged correctly, all you have on the front of your body are 2 simple shoulder straps and a belt/crotch strap. I used to use a Sea-Quest Pro-QD with weight integration. With the weight pockets and the huge storage pockets on the QD, I always felt like the Michelin Man. The simple BP harness is much less restrictive.

-- Weight -- I have a FredT BP whose buoyancy is -9 lbs......key factor for heavy exposure suit cold water diving

-- Underwater trim -- enables you to maintain a horizontal position underwater. This is not impossible to do with jacket BCs, but rear inflation makes this easier IMHO, since the air cell is on your back. As for being pushed forward on the surface -- I have yet to experience it. I feel comfortable at the surface and surface swimming on your back is easy.

-- Stability -- with the crotch strap and a properly rigged harness, the rig does not shift. 2 tank straps help this as well.

CONS:
-- Weight integration -- not available with a BP wings. This can be offset via heavier (more negative) plates. Some folks use the Halcyon weight pockets, although IMHO, these bring back the "Michelin Man" effect I mention above......this is speculation on my part, since I've never used them.

-- Local dealers and training -- I see you've already experienced this via your other thread. Also, if no one you dive with is using these, it can be hard to get advice/training.

-- No pockets -- you can solve this via a hip pocket glued to your wetsuit/drysuit. If diving in a shorty in the carribbean......harder to solve. You can buy BP pockets that allow you to store stuff up against your back, but these can be hard to reach underwater.

-- Dump controls -- there is no "pull dump" where the inflator hose comes out of the wing. You have 2 dump valves -- the inflator hose itself and a rear left hip dump (just a string/knot -- no knob). This is not so much a "con" as a training issue. It can take a little getting used to, but once you've got it -- no problem. I guess the same thing can be said of any new BC -- new controls/features mean a new learning curve.

My $0.02.

-LD

 

[java]

Originally posted by large_diver

Some more thoughts on "why BP/wings for rec diving"....caveat, I've had my BP for 5 dives......these are "BP newbie" impressions:

<snip/>

CONS:
<snip/>

-- Local dealers and training -- I see you've already experienced this via your other thread. Also, if no one you dive with is using these, it can be hard to get advice/training.

-LD

For this reason alone I will hold off for a while.

CONS: (continued)
-- No pockets -- you can solve this via a hip pocket glued to your wetsuit/drysuit. If diving in a shorty in the carribbean......harder to solve. You can buy BP pockets that allow you to store stuff up against your back, but these can be hard to reach underwater.

I imagine that there are pockets that can be attached to the harness one way or the other.

CONS: (continued)
-- Dump controls -- there is no "pull dump" where the inflator hose comes out of the wing. You have 2 dump valves -- the inflator hose itself and a rear left hip dump (just a string/knot -- no knob). This is not so much a "con" as a training issue. It can take a little getting used to, but once you've got it -- no problem. I guess the same thing can be said of any new BC -- new controls/features mean a new learning curve.

All the more of a reason to hold off. This is exactly the type of training that is important especially in an emergency. For someone new to the sport to take unfamiliar gear without training / supervision / help can be a disaster.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.