Warning Key West Dive Operator

[Speargirl]

First off welcome to the board and second we don't hold what someone say's as whole truth unless we know them well. I have to agree with the owner on this one the insurance company owes you the money not the owner of the dive center. You should be talking with them.

I also don't know why you posted this on here, what does it have to do with diving other than the reef being hurt, which has been disscused already in depth. I see that your post is only to try to make the dive shop out to be the bad one here which they are not.....

Go Whine to your friends next door or call the Insurance company and Whine to them.

Sorry to be so harsh but you are the one trying to make out a dive company here in the Keys to be something that they are not..............

And yes that is a pretty high bill.:11: I am sure after people reading this they will use another company to help them.

Becky

 

[The Chairman]

There seems to be MORE to this story than meets the eye! That's why we like to hear BOTH sides of the story! Welcome to both bluebluewater and Snappersnatcher! Hopefully we will hear more about diving off of Key West! After all: that's why we come here!

 

[ReefHound]

Well, just because the boat didnt cost $28k didnt mean it doesnt cost that to retrieve it...Im not saying that price doesnt sound inflated, Im not salvage expert but.....If I have a $500 yugo car, and I drive it into a river, and it costs $1000 for Timmys Salvage to dig it out.....should I not pay him because the car was only worth $500?? NO....Your paying for the service, not the boat or car. Again, the price of $28k could be high, I dont know...BUT for insurance not to pay for the salvage because the boat wasnt worth that much is just wrong. Its not the salvage companies fault the boat wasnt worth $28k...if that is what the appropriate charge for such a salvage is, then thats what they should be paid......If that $28k price is inflated, then they should be paid appropriatley.

Running with your analogy, if you call Timmys Salvage to pull it out then you are responsible for paying Timmy. You can file a claim to recover it from your insurer but that's between you and your insurer. Your obligation to Timmy stands. He doesn't have a contract with your insurer. So the question here is who called the salvage op and said "go get the boat"? Was it the dive op or the insurer?

 

[ReefHound]

Scuba Court is now in session. All Rise!!!

 

[Tom Winters]

Sounds like the fuel tanks were noit breached in the grounding. Good thing - the fines and EPA/Coast Guard clean-up could easily hit the $100K mark without blinking an eye. For starters.
It does not matter what the vessel's pre- or post-salvage value - just what the amount that the hull was insured for regarding total loss. Without a preexisting salvage rider in the policy, the owner will most likely be liable for any salvage amount due over the insurance value.
If this was the same boat that killed her captain in 2005, break the hull up.
All of this can all be litigated in court, but the amounts are pretty minor right now. Add a few thousand lawyer hours, court costs, and aggravation, and you're back up to the $100K level again.
I'd be sitting down with the insurance and salvage guys over a nice leisurely lunch and not leaving until we had this all worked out. Maybe even get an informal outside arbitrator, binding or non-binding, to help sort this stuff out. Lots of retired lawyers down that ways who would gladly sit in.
Not everyone is going to get up from the table totally satisfied, but it will all be finished.

 

[murdrcycle]

I have to agree with the owner on this one the insurance company owes you the money not the owner of the dive center. You should be talking with them.

The insurance company doesn't owe them the money, he does. The insurance company didn't agree to have the boat towed, he did. All that it takes to consitute a contract (in most states) is an offer, an acceptance, and a quid pro quo (something for something). The insurance company didn't enter into the agreement, the owner did.

Lets put it like this - I own a Corvette. I put it up for sale. You agree to buy it in two weeks. Three days before you come to pick it up I get a flat and call a tow truck. The tow truck comes, picks it up, and brings it back to my house. Two days later you show up and buy it.

Who is responsible for that tow truck bill, me or you?

Owner, pay up. You owe it.

Salvager, quit whining and making up crap about overloading boats. If you don't like bad debt I strongly suggest that you get out of the business world.

Of course, this could all be moot if the owner held some type of salvage or towing rider.

 

[mike_s]

First off, let me say that I've dove with SubTropic and they seem to be a first-rate operation. I don't have anything to say but good reviews about my experience with them.

The orginal poster seems intent only on smearing/attacking and causing harm to business. It's pretty stupid really because it won't help get them paid any quicker and will only cause more problems. (I think most will agree).

NO, WE HAVE NOT REFUSED TO PAY ANYONE. THE INSURANCE COMPANY NOW OWNS THE BOAT AND THEY ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE, and are the ones that are refusing to pay salvage for a vessel that does not hold the same value as the bill. I wouldn't spend $100 to retieve a $20 bill from a hole....would you?
Yes, the salvage companies have asked us to help and I have given them up to the minute details of any communication with the insurance company. We however, never agreed to any price for the salvage and will not say that we did so that you can charge the $28,000 for the job. That would be illegal, immoral and just plain lying.
Yes, when the salvage companies arrived, they did their job. The boat however did NOT hold a value of $28,000 once it sank.

$28,000 to tow in a 40' boat floated with airbags does seem a little high, but I'm not in the salvage business either....


Just curious, to set the fact straight, as I'm sure we all want to know:

1.) Did the insurance company call and contract with the salvage company or did Subtropic request the service?

2.) what does the value of the boat have to do with the contract to remove it? Services were contracted and should be paid by whoever contracted them.

3.) Why would you or your insurance company contract for a large service like that without first coming to a price agreement? (or at least a if "this" then it will be "this much" and if "that" it will be "that much" based on circumstances realized at the time of recovery? (Insurance companies are "experiened" enough in their operations not to get caught like this...).


Look forward to your repsonse.

 

[Hetland]

If I have a $1000 car that I get towed from California to New York, would I still not owe the tow company money for the work done? (would be well in excess of a grand) The work is the same for towing a $1000 car as it is for towing a $70,000 car. It's worse for salvage, as the more damaged the boat is, the harder (I assume) it would be to get it back to shore.

 

[mike_s]

Funny how these things happen, as the USAFS Vandenberg is under 'federal arrest' in dock for Key West (or the reefing company hired by Key West) failure to pay the dock and salvage fees for getting the wreck ready to sink.

 

[deeper thoughts]

What a shock the OP has not posted again but has achieved his/her desired results