What do you wish you could teach a recreational diver?

[flots am]

Unfortunately I believe I am a product of a system that has been so watered down, that it's a little scary.

As minimal as the current standards are, if you were actually taught, and practiced, and were good at everything that is required in any of the major certification agency classes, you would be a safe diver, capable of diving with just a buddy.

Unfortunately, this wasn't your class.

Absolutely! My open water pool session was completed in 1hour and 5 mins with one other student. I always remember my "instructor" bragging about when we got back to the shop, about how "good" we were.

Nobody who ever walked the earth can become a safe, competent diver in an hour and 5 minutes in a pool. There just isn't enough time to practice and learn all the skills.

The problem isn't that the instructional materials and requirements are dangerous (they more "watered down" than in the past, but still sufficient); the problem is that your instructor simply ignored them.

flots

 

[jadairiii]

That whatever they hear in a dive shop, assume that it is probably wrong.

 

[cb5150]

absolutely nothing technical but my advice, learn to do nothing, to hang perfectly calm in the water. Quiet. At rest. No stress. No goal. Just quiet observation of the wonder around you.

this^^^^^

 

[Ting Tong]

As minimal as the current standards are, if you were actually taught, and practiced, and were good at everything that is required in any of the major certification agency classes, you would be a safe diver, capable of diving with just a buddy.

Unfortunately, this wasn't your class.



Nobody who ever walked the earth can become a safe, competent diver in an hour and 5 minutes in a pool. There just isn't enough time to practice and learn all the skills.

The problem isn't that the instructional materials and requirements are dangerous (they more "watered down" than in the past, but still sufficient); the problem is that your instructor simply ignored them.

flots

Hi Flots

I agree. The problem with that, is I am not the only one. I am not the only scuba diver that has been taught in this way. The majority of advertising that I see, to get your open water ticket, advertises that you can complete it in 2 1/2 to 3 days. I believe it is an industry problem. Not all courses sold around the world to people like me, are 30 hour in the pool courses whereby if you use your hands you get sent to the 40+ pool. What if I spent 8 hours in the pool the first day, practicing, practicing, practicing and completed my 4 OW dives on the final 2 days? Would I be a safe diver then? Are 3 day courses unsafe?

I believe that my knowledge and skills are not were I want them to be. That is the reason that I started this thread, to ask for advice. There must be literally 1000's of OW divers trained in the same way as me. Possibly some of them had less time in the pool than me. I think if you want to pinpoint my OW instructor as the problem, then you are not seeing the forest for the trees.

The difference between me and all these other 1000's of OW divers, is I have a real desire to become a "safe" competant diver. I have my own gear, I shoot an SMB everytime I surface, I tought myself the tables because in the SSI course it is an option I believe. I realized that even though I "should" be able to plan a dive and plan the requirements for the gas I need, I can not. I think I may be a few steps ahead of a lot (not all) of OW divers, regardless of who their instructor was.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Maybe it is because I just came back from helping out with an OW weekend, but I think gear set up and maintenance should be stressed more. To often I see just simple gear set up, with not enough emphasis put on if something is "wrong/off". If I was an instructor I would cover unscrewed dump valve, completely undone cam strap, switching a tank o ring, weight pocket insertion (You have no idea how many students fail to snap weight pockets into place) and I would drill these things repeatedly until a student could get a completely disassembled BC and a tank with no o-ring and reg with no mouth piece and set it up themselves. These are not difficult skills, but they do require some repetition and actual hands on experience to be competent in.

Is replacing an octo into a necklace underwater a skill taught in OW, because it should be covered. I see a lot of beginners have a problem replacing an octo, and it is just a simple skill.

 

[flots am]

I believe that my knowledge and skills are not were I want them to be. That is the reason that I started this thread, to ask for advice. There must be literally 1000's of OW divers trained in the same way as me. Possibly some of them had less time in the pool than me. I think if you want to pinpoint my OW instructor as the problem, then you are not seeing the forest for the trees.

While "shaving" standards is common, and lots of people had a weekend class, I've never heard of anybody who only had an hour and five minutes.

Your instructor is not the problem, but is certainly a problem.

While you just noticed this, it's been a hot-button on SCUBABoard for at least a decade.

The difference between me and all these other 1000's of OW divers, is I have a real desire to become a "safe" competant diver. I have my own gear, I shoot an SMB everytime I surface, I tought myself the tables because in the SSI course it is an option I believe. I realized that even though I "should" be able to plan a dive and plan the requirements for the gas I need, I can not. I think I may be a few steps ahead of a lot (not all) of OW divers, regardless of who their instructor was.

In the age of computers, tables are a nice teaching tool, but honestly, if the diver will never use tables again, I'd rather spend the time teaching "how to not run out of air"

flots.

 

[tbone1004]

you are the rule not the exception, not thousands, millions.

PADI being the biggest offender, certifies almost 1 million people per year, total certs are well over 22 million. The vast majority of them were trained exactly like you. PADI has just over 50% of the marketplace alone, and since most of the other agencies are just as bad, but only have 10-15% of the market per major agency, their numbers are a bit lower.

You were trained to survive a dive, that's all. You can safely survive a scuba dive. You're now supposed to be able to plan a scuba dive on your own, but that by no stretch of imagination makes you a diver. PADI technically says you're supposed to now be able to plan dives and execute them with a buddy to whatever limits they now restrict their OW divers to, but they plan on you taking more classes so they teach the rest of the stuff later. It's completely idiotic and has won them such nicknames as Put Another Dollar In, Produce Another Dumb Instructor, and a whole slew of others. Their technical side isn't actually all that bad, and their rebreather course is actually the nastiest of any training agencies, kudos Martin Robson for writing it.

When you brag about how quickly you can get certified, how you can go from brand new certified to an instructor in less than a year, and whatever else they brag about, corners have to be cut in instruction, and that leads to rushing through skills in the pool. Perform a mask clear is one of my favorites, all you have to do is cough a mask clear and you check the box off, there is nothing about being comfortable and proficient doing it, just says you have to clear your mask once. These types of corners will hopefully allow you to survive a dive, but it takes a lot of water time to become a diver, countless hours of practice in the pool before you can actually hang motionless in your gear, same for learning to backup and turn without your hands, mastering buoyancy with your oral inflator so you aren't wasting gas from your tanks, etc etc all takes time that they don't give you in classes. Those skills are what make you a diver, not inhale exhale repeat as necessary.

 

[Ting Tong]

Your OW instructor is not the problem, but is certainly a problem.

Agreed!

In the age of computers, tables are a nice teaching tool, but honestly, if the diver will never use tables again, I'd rather spend the time teaching "how to not run out of air"

flots.

I figured I could use them if my dive computer ever went on the blink. Without wanting to derail the thread, by teaching your students "how not to run out of air" are you referring to dive gas planning? You teach this in your OW course? How long is your course may I enquire?

---------- Post added September 29th, 2014 at 10:40 PM ----------

You were trained to survive a dive, that's all.

I agree, and with the help of the scubaboard members, like yourself, I want remedy that. Thanks for all your help and advice.

 

[TSandM]

We teach a PADI open water class. It is longer than the typical resort course, having 9 hours of pool time over three weeks, and 9 hours of classroom, as well as the two days of open water dives.

We teach some basic gas management. We teach horizontal trim, and effective propulsion (not frog kick, unless we have a student doing unusually well). We emphasize buddy skills and situational awareness. We also don't expect students to be masters of all of this at the end of their OW class, and they are given a whole list of additional resources, as well as encouraged to continue their training.

It is not the agency that creates the problem, although it may be complicit in allowing it. It is a pernicious combination of the dive shop that wants to run as many students through as possible, and the consumer, who wants to spend as little time as necessary and the smallest amount of money possible.

Ting Tong, you nailed something important in one of your posts above: You have the DESIRE to become a good, safe diver. With that desire, anything is possible. If you read the journal of my open water class (linked in my sig line) you will see that I started with a combination of a fairly minimal class and a total lack of talent. I was lucky enough to be exposed to some very good diving shortly thereafter, and my first dive with a well-trained person rocked me back on my heels and gave me the determination to master what was clearly possible. And by dint of a fair amount of diligent work (I won't call it "hard" work, because most of it was also fun), some good training, and a LOT of practice, I have become a good diver. Because of that, I believe that it is within reach of anyone who is willing to commit to what it takes to do it.

 

[flots am]

I figured I could use them if my dive computer ever went on the blink.

You can, but probably not how you're thinking. There are a number of threads on the subject, but if your computer fails, it's extremely difficult to figure out where you are on the dive tables.

Without wanting to derail the thread, by teaching your students "how not to run out of air" are you referring to dive gas planning? You teach this in your OW course?

Yes, but only to a level that's useful in OW without too much task loading. They're given some guidelines on how to have enough air to get back to the boat/shore and share with a buddy if necessary, but the important part is monitoring "what's left" so at the very, very least, there shouldn't be any "Crap! I'm out of air!" moments.

How long is your course may I enquire?

7-8 class & pool sessions, although it can run longer if needed.

There's also a fair amount of "do it this way" type stuff. For example, re-boarding a boat while still breathing on the reg, which prevents drowning and smashed teeth in case of unexpected boat-ladder movement.

There's a lot of "little stuff" like that in OW that only becomes "big stuff" if you happen to be in a situation where it applies. This is the kind of thing that's really, really hard to cover if you don't have time to do it.

flots.