What I want, and I bet I'm not the only one

[scubadada]

I want a high quality, hoseless, air integrated, wrist computer that runs Buhlmann ZHL-16C with GF, a max of 3 gases (don't need trimix or CCR). I would like it to track O2 exposure with NOAA tables and a 90 minute elimination half life, unlike PPS rolling 24 hour window. The majority of my dives are no stop, but about 7% are light deco. I dive hard, often 4 dives per day, multiple days.

So...neither Shearwater or Heinrichs Weikamp are going to build this computer, who will? Under the Scubapro umbrella, will Seabear fit my need? The Hollis TX1 is pretty close it weren't for the O2 tracking algorithm. Both of these computers have more features than I want

 

[hroark2112]

Why is AI a deal breaker? A simple 2" gauge works great, and you should have a feel for where your tank pressure is before you look anyway!

 

[scubadada]

Why is AI a deal breaker? A simple 2" gauge works great, and you should have a feel for where your tank pressure is before you look anyway!

If I would have wanted your opinion regarding AI, I would have asked for it. there have been many discussions on the topic. I asked a very simple, specific question, thanks

 

[Chiung]

I want a high quality, hoseless, air integrated, wrist computer that runs Buhlmann ZHL-16C with GF, a max of 3 gases (don't need trimix or CCR). I would like it to track O2 exposure with NOAA tables and a 90 minute elimination half life, unlike PPS rolling 24 hour window. The majority of my dives are no stop, but about 7% are light deco. I dive hard, often 4 dives per day, multiple days.

So...neither Shearwater or Heinrichs Weikamp are going to build this computer, who will? Under the Scubapro umbrella, will Seabear fit my need? The Hollis TX1 is pretty close it weren't for the O2 tracking algorithm. Both of these computers have more features than I want

Same thing here
high quality, hoseless, air integrated, wrist computer
user replaceable batteries (AA or AAA)
small form factor like the H3
color display
same software as Petrel

 

[Chiung]

Why is AI a deal breaker? A simple 2" gauge works great, and you should have a feel for where your tank pressure is before you look anyway!

Because the technology is available and useful. Same reason most people prefer this



over this

 

[dmaziuk]

Why is AI a deal breaker?

Because without it Shearwater or Heinrichs Weikamp would fit the bill. (Though I've no idea how their O2 tracking works, I expect at least one of them could be persuaded.)

Why "no trimix"? What if helium gets cheap and we can reduce our N2% by adding He instead of adding oxtox? </wishful thinking>

---------- Post added December 16th, 2015 at 04:05 PM ----------

If I would have wanted your opinion regarding AI, I would have given it to you.

There. Fixed it for ya.

Edit: oh yeah, and +1 and thanks for mentioning TX1. Looks like the one I'll be upgrading to when/if that happens -- unless your wish comes true first.

---------- Post added December 16th, 2015 at 04:11 PM ----------

user replaceable batteries (AA or AAA)
small form factor like the H3

You do realise that those 2 are mutually exclusive, right?

 

[Jax]

No need for rudeness, boys.

Everyone makes it sound so easy to design one of these (yes, actually, it is).

However, the real cost comes in deciding the reliability rate, testing against the parameters, determining the materiasl and again, testing against the parameters.

If you sell a dive computer, you are selling a life support item. You are automatically a target of lawsuit if something happens.

Manufacturers will design and present only what they believe they can successfully defend in court. Really.

 

[stuartv]

I want a high quality, hoseless, air integrated, wrist computer that runs Buhlmann ZHL-16C with GF, a max of 3 gases (don't need trimix or CCR). I would like it to track O2 exposure with NOAA tables and a 90 minute elimination half life, unlike PPS rolling 24 hour window. The majority of my dives are no stop, but about 7% are light deco. I dive hard, often 4 dives per day, multiple days.

So...neither Shearwater or Heinrichs Weikamp are going to build this computer, who will? Under the Scubapro umbrella, will Seabear fit my need? The Hollis TX1 is pretty close it weren't for the O2 tracking algorithm. Both of these computers have more features than I want

If the H3 ever actually has AI available*, I may just have to buy one, even though I already have a Petrel 2. I definitely would prefer that form factor.

Regarding Trimix, I have to say that with the options available nowadays for recreational trimix and Helitrox, and the benefits I keep being told about regarding diving with Helium on dives to 100' or more, I, personally, would not buy a new computer like you're describing that didn't support Trimix.

I am taking AN/DP now and I expect to get a Helitrox card shortly after I complete AN/DP. It will be a short and inexpensive class. I don't know that I will dive with Helium often. But, I definitely want to try it and, assuming I experience the benefits that I keep hearing about, I would use it when I felt like it would actually benefit me. Most of my non-training dives seem to be past 100' (wrecks off the Outer Banks), so I think it might be pretty handy.

You might not feel like you have any need for Trimix now, but why buy a computer like you want that doesn't have the capability? Are you that confident that won't ever decide to add Helium to your arsenal?

*I have AI with my Atom now. So, even if the H3 had AI I might buy the H3 and not spend for the AI module. The biggest hold up for me is that no matter what they say about coming out with AI, I won't really believe the current H3 is going to support AI until it is actually released. I've seen too many technology items that have come out with promised future support for an add-on that is coming in the future and then, later, when the add-on finally comes out it turns out that the previously released items can't support the new add-on - or at least, can't support it without sending it back to the factory and paying for some kind of upgrade. The Motorola Xoom tablet and 4G/LTE support comes immediately to mind.

---------- Post added December 16th, 2015 at 03:27 PM ----------

You do realise that those 2 are mutually exclusive, right?

Only if you limit your options to those big batteries that he gave as examples.

I don't see why someone couldn't make a computer like the H3 and put a user replaceable, RECHARGEABLE battery in it.

Some of the smartphone companies have responded to, basically, the same question by saying that making the battery user replaceable would add thickness to the phone. Then companies like Samsung and LG makes phones that are just as thin as the competition, with batteries that have just as much capacity, and their phones are just as thin.

Also, other dive computers have user replaceable batteries that are reliably watertight.

Bottom line: I don't find any believable explanation for why a computer like the H3 couldn't have a user replaceable, rechargeable battery, with the same form factor it has now. Not a AA battery. But, I don't think it would be that hard to find a cell phone battery or an iPod battery or similar that is, essentially, a commodity item that would work.

 

[tbone1004]

reason you can't get user replaceable in the H3 isn't because of the battery, it's because you can't trust users to be able to seal it back up when they are done with it and the coin batteries don't have enough juice to power one. It's only going to cost an extra $30-$40 to pay Subgravity to replace the battery than it would for you to do it yourself, and that is cheap insurance in case it floods. H3 form factor with user replaceable, rechargeable batteries are truly mutually exclusive. Ask Samsung and LG to maintain their replaceable batteries but seal it with a rating to 15 atmospheres and they'll laugh at you. You can't do it. I don't know why people get hung up on it, the lipo batteries in that thing should last easily 3-4 years before it dies and then just send it out to get replaced, not a big deal.


Suunto is out because of the algorithm, so is anything AUP comes out with, and we will see what Aqualung does with PPS but it is unlikely for them to stray from the recreational algorithms.

If scubapro comes out with AI for the seabear line that is going to be your only option realistically. Give up on that computer being max 3 gas with no ccr or fixed PO2, if they're spending that much money to do it, they're going to make it capable of running for the technical divers because including that feature won't discourage any customers from considering it, but if they make it 3 gas limited, it removes it as an option for part of the market so it's easier to come out with it and have a recreational mode like they did with the Petrel. If it has enough power to run gradient factors, then extra gasses are nothing but a few lines of code in the programming that are already there from the other computers in the line so better to KISS on that.

 

[dmaziuk]

I don't see why someone couldn't make a computer like the H3 and put a user replaceable, RECHARGEABLE battery in it.

Some of the smartphone companies have responded to, basically, the same question by saying that making the battery user replaceable would add thickness to the phone. Then companies like Samsung and LG makes phones that are just as thin as the competition, with batteries that have just as much capacity, and their phones are just as thin.

The advantage of coin/cylinder-shaped battery is you can seal it with a standard-size o-ring. The flat rectangles like in the phones and presumably H3/T1 -- not quite so simple. Not rocket science but the driving assumption is users' hands are all thumbs and you're going to end with so many flooded battery compartments you just don't want to run a tech support dept for the product.

I'm OK with a non-rechargeable (but replaceable of course) coin battery if it lasts a hundred dives or more. That pretty much means no colour display -- but as I tend to dive in Caribbean sunlight, that's a mixed blessing anyway.

Oh, and my wife's S-mumble lasts about a day and a half. To alleviate that she has it inside the "battery case" that -- guess what -- adds about 80% more battery life and 100% of thickness to the phone. So it turns out those dumb stupid phone companies were spot on, actually. What they didn't figure is users will happily take it and ask for seconds.