What is the differences in NAUI vs PADI class guidelines

[Walter]

I am both NAUI and PADI and *I* believe that PADI instructors have more freedom than they think and is taught in an IDC.

Perhaps, but it doesn't answer the original question.

By setting up a clearly defined course curriculum that is structured and duplicate able, PADI has ensured that quality control can be maintained.

No it hasn't. No agency can ever ensure quality control. All any agency can do is make their standards clear and easy to read and follow up on reported standards violations. All agencies, including PADI, have standards violations.

This is one of the reasons why PADI courses are recognized by educational bodies in many countries, and is eligible for college or university credits.

Courses from many agencies are eligible for college & university credit.

That is not to say that modifications to address regional differences and needs cannot be introduced. Flexibility in the course is available, but for most situations the standard course outline is the most logical route. The thinking is simply that no matter where or with whom you take a PADI diving course, the course should be very close to being the same. That’s why they call it “standards” in the first place.

PADI instructors are able to introduce extras into their classes, but they are not allowed to make them required.

Some may argue that complete flexibility, and being able to teach what you want is better, but then how on earth do you audit or implement quality control measures on the course being taught? The answer simply is you don’t!

Of course you can. If an agency requires skill A, it can as easily investigate (and perhaps easier) if it was required in a class as if it was required in Module 2 of the class. If the instructor requires skill B that is not required by the agency, it does not stop the agency from investigating if skills C & D, that are required by the agency was mastered by students in the class.

For all the heat and bad feeling that GUE gets for it DIR course it teaches, one thing seems to stand out. They, like PADI, realized that in order to maintain some form or quality assurance, you have to have “standards” that are adhered to.

I doubt you'll find any agency that disagrees.

 

[Notso_Ken]

. . . This is one of the reasons why PADI courses are recognized by educational bodies in many countries, and is eligible for college or university credits. . .

Our local university offers scuba classes for both PADI and NAUI, both programs get you the same academic credit. So, that is not a difference between the two.

I did my Advanced class that way, and I have a NAUI card.

Ken

 

[kidspot]

OK great, Now I have the same opinion going both ways...

Do you have a choice between NAUI & PADI? If so, you might ask your LDS about your end goals and their recommendation of agency - some would also point out that either instructor course would be available regardless of whom your DM is with. I discussed this very issue with the manager of my LDS a few weeks ago and he recommended NAUI, even though they are a PADI only shop. He said that with my diving philosophy (DIR) NAUI would be easier to teach for... of course no one in the state offers a NAUI ITC, so if, in time, I were to go that direction I would have to go through PADI.
Let us know what you decide though as I'm sure there are others who have and will continue to ask this very question.

"WITHOUT" bringing the quality of INSTRUCTORS into the question, will a few of you site some agency specific examples for me?...

As pointed out PADI would require all skills in the confined water session 2 be done before moving on to open water session 3 ... but as was already pointed out, that does not necessarily mean you cannot include other material, only that you cannot require other material (meaning you can't make the course more difficult than PADI standards) - this is where I would have a problem with PADI, however you could most likely teach the "higher" standards until everyone got them, and never even mention that you didn't "require" that they master them - lol I remember reading a thread by one PADI instructor on the board (can't remember who, or what thread at the moment, but perhaps Walter knows) who wanted to teach bouyancy skills early on without sitting on the bottom of the pool. He noted that in the standards, students were not required to kneel on the bottom, rather they were required to "make physical contact" with the pool... so he has them touch the side of the pool with 2 fingers, thus satisfying the requirements, but still forcing them to excercise fine bouyancy control during all skills. Kneeling came under a section about recommendations/ideas for implimenting the standards...

As I'm not an instructor, I hope I accurately portrayed what I remember reading ... if not I'm sure someone will be along shortly to remedy that - lol...

Again, let us know your decision as I, at least, am quite interested in this topic (I begin my "PADI" DM course/internship in October, through my lds)

Aloha, Tim

 

[SubMariner]

I remember reading a thread by one PADI instructor on the board (can't remember who, or what thread at the moment, but perhaps Walter knows) who wanted to teach bouyancy skills early on without sitting on the bottom of the pool. He noted that in the standards, students were not required to kneel on the bottom, rather they were required to "make physical contact" with the pool... so he has them touch the side of the pool with 2 fingers, thus satisfying the requirements, but still forcing them to excercise fine bouyancy control during all skills. Kneeling came under a section about recommendations/ideas for implimenting the standards...

There is no PADI standard that requires that a student "make physical contact with the pool [bottom?]" during ANY phase of confined water training. However, there ARE skills that are required to be done in shallow water or water too deep to stand up in.

Pax,

 

[tlawler]

This certainly isn't meant as a definitive argument, but for what it's worth:

Back in the early eighties when I took my basic and OW classes in Pearl Harbor, they were taught by a crusty old Devil Dog named Dennis Kirwan. I mention his name because he had quite a reputation as a hard assed instructor around the island. He had been diving since the early 40's with the UDT's and had surveyed beaches for the Corps prior to their invasions of several notable beaches in the South Pacific. For some reason, he absolutely despised PADI. His philosophy was that PADI taught resort divers and NAUI taught real divers. I mean this guy was DIR before there was DIR. He was especially hard on us Navy guys, but in retrospect, I'm glad I had him as an instructor. I believe he taught the way he did just because it's who he was, more than NAUI vs. PADI. Maybe at some point, PADI had dissed him somehow and he had an axe to grind.

And also:

My local LDS used to be exclusively PADI. When my wife got her cert there 5 years ago, it was a PADI OW. We used to spar a bit over that. I guess old Dennis rubbed off on me a bit. Recently, about two years ago, they became a NAUI exclusive dive facility. The reason they gave me was that they thought NAUI had a better training program. But who knows. I've learned that just about everyone has an agenda and many times that pretty much dictates what's what. Personally I've never seen anything to say that one is better than another. I like my LDS and since they teach NAUI, those are the courses I take.

 

[Dv4fun]

My daughter is attending University of Florida and they are offering a 2 credit college course in scuba diving ( I know becouse she bugged me for the lab fees) , after viewing the UF web it is NAUI certification. So there ya go. My older Brother is a NAUI instructor and My younger brother is a PADI instructor. FLIP a coin, they are both good. Check out the course directors, do your homework on the facility where you will be taking the courses, ask for references. I was in the and am in the same situation . Let me know what you decide, I was going to further my education into instructing in about 12-18 months, but, have not decided either. I am currently a PADI DM and was looking into NAUI also. Good Luck

 

[StSomewhere]

A couple of the modules in my PADI OW class were intentionally taught "out of sequence". So it can be done.

My complaint with PADI has always been that they teach buoyancy with parlor tricks and demonstrations like fin pivots and the buddah hover, vs. useful real-world skills like proper trim and propulsion (frog kicks, modified flutter, etc.). In the end, does it really matter *when* you do fin pivots at the bottom of the pool (or training platform)?

 

[Azza]

I am both NAUI and PADI and *I* believe that PADI instructors have more freedom than they think and is taught in an IDC.

You are absolutely right. It's all about interpretation...

 

[neil]

"WITHOUT" bringing the quality of INSTRUCTORS into the question, will a few of you site some agency specific examples for me?

The truth is, both courses tend to be similar in scope and requirements.

- PADI DMs can do a little more independently, such as refreshers and scuba experiences.
-A PADI DM can assist a PADI or NAUI instructor. Opposite doesn't fly, go figure.
-A NAUI DM candidate must have passed the NAUI Master Scuba Diver exam so they generally go into the course already knowing their physics and physiology.
-For certification, PADI requires more logged dives. Both are inadequate, IMO.
-NAUI requires candidates to organize and lead a night dive.

There's more, but the differences tend to be minor compared to finding a mentor whose attitude and philosophy you like. If you have some more specific questions we can try to answer them.

 

[renaissancemanjoshua]

You see I am in a position that it sounds like many divers do not ever get to enjoy. Within reasonable driving distance I have shops that teach just about anything you want PADI, NAUI, SSI, or SDI. As each shop teaches one agency, none of them will do much besides badmouth the others and promote their own program.

After distilling all this information I believe we all agree on these principals:
1. PADI has a strongly recommended order of instruction NAUI allows more flexibility.
2. PADI does not allow adding "required" skills to the course NAUI does.
3. PADI allows DMs more authority/authorized activities.
3. Many of each agencies rules allow for intrepretation.
4. Both courses "may" be eligible for college credit.
5. Old military personel make tough instructors.

I am now looking for an online breakdown of what each agency authorises its certified DMs to perform. I can't seem to find it available on the agency sites. Does anyone know where I might find this information?