What is the future of GUE?

[seeker242]

There's so many classes designed to cater to everyone, and I think that pushes it more toward mediocrity.

As a new diver looking for more instruction, my impression is essentially the opposite. It appears to me that GUE has the least amount of classes pretty much out of any agency. I mean if you are not going to do tech or cave, which is most divers, what is there to do after fundamentals? Rec 2? Rec 3? If GUE is ever going to grow as an organization, they are going to have to do a better job addressing the strictly recreational diving community.

 

[CptTightPants21]

I really don't like it that Ccr is taught with an instructor also on ccr. I think the course content is lacking based on what I've seen but I admittedly haven't taken the class. The course also isn't standardized adequately and I feel like it's being made up as they go along. Big grumble of mine.

Dive leader (I think that's what the new gue DM thing is called), supervised diver, gas blender, doc diver, tech 60 are all extraneous classes that I just can't get behind. I do not feel there needs to be a "class" for everything in the universe, nor do I think gue should bein the business of half way certs like
"Supervised diver". I thought cave 3 and tech 3 were silly when they were on the books, too.

But ESPECIALLY rec 3!! Pitchforks! ------E

Apart from Rec 3 (which I don't think gets taught much any way), I disagree on you with the classes. I think there is a nice and modest mix of classes.

Doubles and Drysuit have always been semi introductory courses for students to get introduced to GUE and to help those who are just starting out with doubles and/or a more “technical” mindset of scuba diving.

DPV/Documents Diver—Courses that provide slightly specialized skill set and exposure, but more importantly are courses that a person with a Rec pass can take. It keeps them active with the agency and doing skills with a ‘GUE standard’

Bas Blender-Might be a little bit of an “extra” course, but I know a few divers who started blending their own gas after Tech 1. Others just want to learn more about the process and proper safety protocol. I don’t see an issue with this class.

Tech 60- A necessary stepping stone if you are dealing with a regimented/strict GUE diver. There is a large gap and lots of diving between Tech 1 and Tech 2, Tech 60 helps assist with that.

GUE has been adding a lot more instructors. As with anything, time will tell. It’s good that the agency is growing, but I’m a little worried about over supply of instructors vs the demand for GUE type instruction. Standards obviously have to be maintained and any drop off would be detrimental to the growth.

I don’t see anything about DM. Although, with the number of instructors they have been adding recently, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them add it as a stepping stone. They have always kind of had DMs with people who would consistently help out with class/were on their way to becoming instructors, but now they have an actual name and rank.

I don’t see anything about Supervise Diver.

I have no idea how you could possibly teach a CCR class and NOT have the instructor on CCR themselves. I know it "can" be done, but it doesn't pass the smell test and is a HUGE red flag.

 

[gobuyastick]

As others have said, GUE will still be around in 10 years however will the quality of instruction remain consistant or will we see it slowly degrade

 

[gobuyastick]

I have no idea how you could possibly teach a CCR class and NOT have the instructor on CCR themselves. I know it "can" be done, but it doesn't pass the smell test and is a HUGE red flag.

The way I interpreted what AJ said was that having the instructor on a rebreather while teaching can be a "liability" in the sense that if something happens like the loop goes hypoxic/hyperoxic or there is a bad CO2 hit on the instructor that impairs them, then what happens with the students, are they left to deal with something of that magnitude on their own being new ccr divers ?

 

[CptTightPants21]

The way I interpreted what AJ said was that having the instructor on a rebreather while teaching can be a "liability" in the sense that if something happens like the loop goes hypoxic/hyperoxic or there is a bad CO2 hit on the instructor that impairs them, then what happens with the students, are they left to deal with something of that magnitude on their own being new ccr divers ?

And that is one of the great benefits of GUE. They are Tech 2 divers with OC if they need it. I think they'll be ok.

 

[PfcAJ]

Apart from Rec 3 (which I don't think gets taught much any way), I disagree on you with the classes. I think there is a nice and modest mix of classes.

Doubles and Drysuit have always been semi introductory courses for students to get introduced to GUE and to help those who are just starting out with doubles and/or a more “technical” mindset of scuba diving.

DPV/Documents Diver—Courses that provide slightly specialized skill set and exposure, but more importantly are courses that a person with a Rec pass can take. It keeps them active with the agency and doing skills with a ‘GUE standard’

Bas Blender-Might be a little bit of an “extra” course, but I know a few divers who started blending their own gas after Tech 1. Others just want to learn more about the process and proper safety protocol. I don’t see an issue with this class.

Tech 60- A necessary stepping stone if you are dealing with a regimented/strict GUE diver. There is a large gap and lots of diving between Tech 1 and Tech 2, Tech 60 helps assist with that.

GUE has been adding a lot more instructors. As with anything, time will tell. It’s good that the agency is growing, but I’m a little worried about over supply of instructors vs the demand for GUE type instruction. Standards obviously have to be maintained and any drop off would be detrimental to the growth.

I don’t see anything about DM. Although, with the number of instructors they have been adding recently, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them add it as a stepping stone. They have always kind of had DMs with people who would consistently help out with class/were on their way to becoming instructors, but now they have an actual name and rank.

I don’t see anything about Supervise Diver.

I have no idea how you could possibly teach a CCR class and NOT have the instructor on CCR themselves. I know it "can" be done, but it doesn't pass the smell test and is a HUGE red flag.

Doubles and Drysuits are aight I guess.

DPV is aight. Doc tho? Ugh. Can't get down with it. Classes with the purpose to "keep them active in the agency" is a poor goal.

There are other places to learn that. Is the GUE Gas Blender better? Misplaced focus.

Tech 60 is a halfway course. You're either ready for stages or not. You could fill gaps between any course and argue that the gap is too large. PADI Example:
Discover Tec
Tec 40
Tec 45
Tec 50
Tec Trimix 65
Tec Trimix Diver
Tec Gas Blender
Tec Sidemount
Discover Rebreather
Rebreather Diver
Advanced Rebreather Diver
Rebreather Qualifier

Jeez. Come on guys. You could have virtually unlimited stepping stones.

Dive Supervisor was announced on that FB Live thing by all the top GUE brass a few months ago.

Teaching on a RB is silly. RB80 course is taught by an instructor on OC. Why exactly DOES the instructor need to be on the unit? What's accomplished that couldn't be with them on OC?

And rec 3 sucks.

 

[jadairiii]

....
Tech 60- A necessary stepping stone if you are dealing with a regimented/strict GUE diver. There is a large gap and lots of diving between Tech 1 and Tech 2, Tech 60 helps assist with that....
.

This is exactly my point, the core of GUE when it began was "lots of diving", now it is just like PADI, lots of classes and handholding.....and another card. That gap was there for a reason. GUE was not started to be a "zero to hero", now it is.

....
I have no idea how you could possibly teach a CCR class and NOT have the instructor on CCR themselves. I know it "can" be done, but it doesn't pass the smell test and is a HUGE red flag.

I will say I am not a CCR diver but if an instructor starts to see a student getting "fuzzy" its a little hard to hand off the long hose quickly if he/she is on a CCR also.

But, again, common sense was a core to GUE in the very beginning............

 

[boulderjohn]

This is exactly my point, the core of GUE when it began was "lots of diving", now it is just like PADI, lots of classes and handholding.....and another card. That gap was there for a reason. GUE was not started to be a "zero to hero", now it is.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, and I am trying to see it through the lens of my own early tech training experience. Although the instructor was not a GUE instructor, his background was almost exclusively GUE. In introducing the course, he flat out told us he was ignoring the actual standards of his organization and following the GUE model. He used the words you used--there will be no "handholding, like they do in PADI courses."

It took me a while to figure out what he meant by that, and what he meant by that is that he would have very high standards for us to meet, and he would provide little to no instruction as we strove to meet them. (Providing instruction = handholding.) He would instead mock our efforts (an instructional method he made clear that he learned from AG) until we got good enough to be grudgingly given a certification card.

Many people will eventually learn skills without instruction by just diving. Is that what you mean by the reason for the gap? By having no "handholding," do you mean having no instruction to help people along the way? Do you mean that people who believe they will learn better by incremental instruction should seek out the handholding agencies instead?

 

[gobuyastick]

@PfcAJ is what youre getting at is GUE dosent need classes like dpv, gas blender, doubles and drysuit primer, etc. since all the above mentioned can be learned from a good mentor and just going out and diving and by having those classes its just "filler" material ?

 

[jadairiii]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.....

As I was told back when GUE was in it infancy, by one of the original tech instructors for GUE, was that GUE would teach the skills but that the purpose was to go out and use them, by diving.... a lot. GUE did not want a bunch of course Monkeys that most of their diving experience was in taking courses. Nor did GUE what a cadre of instructors that did nothing but teach. They wanted their instructors to be out there actually diving and exploring and bringing that experience back to the student(s).