What makes a master diver?

[MikeFerrara]

Semantics is such fun...
The words "advanced" and "master" (as they apply to diving) are just about as subjective as the word "instructor". I've had the pleasure of having very qualified and conscientious instructors for all of my certifications. However, I've also come into contact with some instructors who can be defined as such in name only...they couldn't "instruct" their way out of the proverbial paper bag. In other words, they were very accomplished divers, and I have no doubt that they had impressive skills, but they couldn't translate those skills (or even the simple basics) to their students effectively. And for the record, the letters associated with their names included some other than P*A*D*I.
I suppose my point is that those who seek the Master Scuba cert need to do so because they want to improve some of their underwater practices and skills, not to laud it over and/or somehow impress others. After all, look at how it's earned...five specialty courses that might include photography, fish identification, naturalist practices, etc... It's not the same thing as learning about the types of embolisms or survival strategies. But then, it wasn't meant to be. Take the title (whether you think the word choice unfortunate or not) for what it was intended to be and not what we want to THINK it's supposed to mean, and leave it at that.
After all, "DiveMaster" means something entirely different than "master diver", and PADI makes no bones about that.

I have to disagree in that there is NOTHING at all subjective about what an instructor is. In the context of the dive industry, an instructor is one who is authorized by an agency to administer their courses and issue their certifications. The instructor may or may not be a good diver or a good instructor but they are, in fact, an instructor and it isn't the least bit subjective.

Maybe in contrast, What is a "Master Scuba diver" qualified to do? The title doesn't even tell you what specialties they have taken (thinking of PADI).

Now, if you really think that any of those courses did ANYTHING to improve skills or document that skills have been improved, you need to read the training standards for those courses. You may be surprised to find out how few of those courses require the student to do any more than survive the dives. That IS what makes the whole thing a JOKE. They aren'ty required to dive well in the OW course, AOR, rescue or in most of the specialty courses. They can crawl on the bottom through all of them and end up a "Master Scuba Diver". Nothing subjective about that either. It's in the training standards as plain as day.

 

[Guba]

Mike, I agree with your interpretation. Where we differ is solely in the way people--the common populace and even many divers--utilize interpretations of their own. I go back to my years of teaching grammar and English compostion. One of the concepts I taught was that "context is 90 percent of understanding".
For example, I agree with you totally that "dive instructor" has very specific requirement goals and skills. However, a very large portion of the populace will interpret the term "instructor" as being "a person who possesses the ability to actually teach". We both know there is a huge discrepancy in the truth of that statement.
You and I and anyone else who has read the standards for the specialties know that very little has to be documented or tested (one exception might be the "peak performance buoyancy...there are skills tests for that one). They are, in essence, like the continuing education classes we find in colleges and junior colleges. They are for the person's personal edification and are not meant to imply a person has moved toward "expert" in any way.
But if we KNOW that's the context in which the phrase "master diver" is used, then we don't EXPECT it to mean anything else. If we read too much into the certification, that's our problem and means we haven't done our own research into what is involved.
I know of few people who would be significantly impressed by a person who has taken continuing education courses in, say, photography or interior design. We shouldn't be unduly impressed by those divers who have done the same thing in this sport, and I don't think they expect us to.

By the way...love your signature line. And is it appropriate for what we're talking about or what?!

 

[Paco II]

What a strange thing to say. I am very much impressed by anyone that is able to carve out the time to take continuing education in any area of interest. If I met someone that has taken every speciality course offered by SSI or PADI or whatever, I very much would be impressed by them. I won't assume that they are the greatest divers in the world (until I've dived with them), but I most certainly will be impressed by their obvious passion for the sport, and love of learning (assuming that that is why they have done it, and not just for the patches )

I know of few people who would be significantly impressed by a person who has taken continuing education courses in, say, photography or interior design. We shouldn't be unduly impressed by those divers who have done the same thing in this sport, and I don't think they expect us to.

 

[BidAndDive.com]

Along with all of the above mentioned, patience and perserverance.

 

[Hemlon]

What a strange thing to say. I am very much impressed by anyone that is able to carve out the time to take continuing education in any area of interest. If I met someone that has taken every speciality course offered by SSI or PADI or whatever, I very much would be impressed by them. I won't assume that they are the greatest divers in the world (until I've dived with them), but I most certainly will be impressed by their obvious passion for the sport, and love of learning (assuming that that is why they have done it, and not just for the patches )

Well said!

 

[Guba]

Whoa, pardna'. Here we go with context, again. When I said "impressed", I was using the context that everyone seemed to have a problem with from the OP. That is, that "master diver" was somehow equivalent to "skilled, experienced, and proficient".

I, too, would be "impressed" (different context) with that person's zeal and willingness to learn more, just as much as I would a person who has taken courses to further their knowledge of any field. But just as you pointed out, I wouldn't be "impressed" with their skills AS A DIVER until I had actually been underwater with them and witnessed what they did there. At that point, it wouldn't matter at all what card they had in their pocket. The skills would speak for themselves.

I can respect passion for learning (I am a professional educator, after all) and love for the sport, but those attributes are not inherent (though contributory) to having good skills. All the passion in the world won't get a dive buddy out of a jam, for example. Only the cool head that comes from experience, good skills, and training will do that, and I think everyone recognizes that few patches or cards provide that distinction.

Not being contrary or argumentative here...just wanting to be clear so that there is little room for misinterpretation. I appreciate your responses.

 

[Paco II]

I think I understand. However, this whole thread has gotten a little 'too much.' IMHO any level of certification is still subject to personal evaluation. I've been diving with certified Dive Masters that I felt were atrocious divers.

 

[Guba]

Roger that...I think that's why just about all of us take cert cards with a grain of salt. Much better to spend some time getting to know a dive partner and witnessing first hand how he/she handles him/herself underwater.
I do believe, however, that the designation "master diver" is a magnet for barbs from divers who place far too much emphasis on the literal definition of the word "master".

 

[diveasr]

i think the master diver course shouldnt even be offered, its not like anyone gets any use out of it other than the agencys,

 

[Paco II]

I can only speak to how SSI does it, but to be clear, there is no SSI Master Diver course. It is simply a rating. SSI Master Diver = 4 specialties + Stress and Rescue + >= 50 dives

i think the master diver course shouldnt even be offered, its not like anyone gets any use out of it other than the agencys,