What makes a master diver?

[mdb]

By any standard of training, and duty of care, the vacationing DM had every right ... and to my concern an obligation to the person he WAS responsible for (his dive buddy) ... to swim away.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

How sad. To swim away from someone seeking help or a safe haven.

Well, that is your take on it all. Swim away, wow. Sometime, somewhere, I hope someone does not "swim away" on you or anyone else.

 

[daniel f aleman]

Duty of Care is a very complicated subject, in any moral, ethical or legal sense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_care

Duty to Rescue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue

 

[diveasr]

You have obviously never read the requirements.

There is a tad more than "some theory" required.

Required Classroom for the Gold Master Diver Program:

1. Advanced dive tables and decompression planning.
2. Accident management.
3. Physics theory.
4. Diving physiology theory
5. Equipment mechanics.
6. Medical aspects.
7. Environmental awareness.

Prerequisites include Silver Advanced certification or equivalent (only the LA County Advanced Diver Program would qualify as equivalent)

Silver Advanced required classroom includes Equipment Maintenance, navigation, night, limited visibility, deep, boating safety, environment and a CPR rating is required. 10 dives are required for Silver Advanced, not 5. There are several required skills in open water including making an entry without a mask and donning it underwater. The mask must be removed and replaced again between 50 and 80 feet of depth.

To complete the Gold Master Diver course, the student must be certified SLAM (SCUBA Lifesaving and Accident Management), First Aid, CPR, and O2 provider.

The 10 required dives include at least 2 dives to 100 ft, two while wearing either a wet suit or a dry suit, 2 night or limited vis (0 - 2 ft) and dives in both fresh and salt water.

In open water, the student must swim (no gear) 200 yds, dive to 10 ft (no stopping allowed) recover a 3 lb weight and hold it on the surface for at least 2 minutes.

Hold breath underwater for 20 seconds, surface for 10 seconds, repeat.

Snorkel 400 yds, surface dive to 30 ft.

Wearing full SCUBA, snorkel 300 yds

Simulate rescue of diver from 50 ft, hold on the surface for 2 minutes

At 20 ft, swim on SCUBA without a mask at least 25 yds

Navigate a triangle with legs at least 100 ft long, marking each point with a surface marker. Must return to within 20 ft of the starting point.

Plan & execute a simulated decompression dive.

Remove and replace mask & regulator while between 80 & 100 ft.

It's just a little more than "nothing more than at least 25 dives w instructor, some deep dives and some theory."

oops then it has changed since my uncle was teaching it in the late 80s

sorry then i admit my fault

 

[Walter]

oops then it has changed since my uncle was teaching it in the late 80s

sorry then i admit my fault

Not much. If he taught it as you described, he was violating standards.

 

[Sideband]

Exactly,

If you carry his statement out, using his own reasoning, then if a stranger swam up to him while he was diving he would be "professionally obligated" to teach them SCUBA.

Sounds fair to me.

Gads! What about the poor guy whose profession is....Executioner...?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

How sad. To swim away from someone seeking help or a safe haven.

Well, that is your take on it all. Swim away, wow. Sometime, somewhere, I hope someone does not "swim away" on you or anyone else.

The relevent point is that you wouldn't know what they were seeking ... because you have no idea why they're following you around. The way I read the thread, this person wasn't seeking help ... she was just tagging along with no prior discussion or agreement on the part of the people she was following.

Frankly, if I thought she was seeking help, we'd all be on our way to the surface. And the first question when we got there would be "where's your dive buddy?"

As I said earlier ... I'll dive with anybody ... but we need to talk about it before the dive. Otherwise, you weren't part of my dive plan, and I will not make you part of it based on assumptions.

Let's not confuse two very different situations here. If someone needs help ... if they even LOOK LIKE they need help ... I get involved immediately. If they just look like they're following me around, then I accept no liability for them.

In diving, you are responsible for your own safety. As a solo diver, I figured you'd understand that concept ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

Let's not confuse two very different situations here. If someone needs help ... if they even LOOK LIKE they need help ... I get involved immediately. If they just look like they're following me around, then I accept no liability for them.

Absolutely.

 

[robertarak]

My wife and I (she is also a photographer) spent most of the dive trying to lose this diver who was following us around.

WOW, how sad. As a new diver I can tell you, since you don't obviously don't remember, the biggest fear is losing site of your buddy or your group. It's a big, scary ocean out there...especialy on a boat dive. So you TRIED to lose her. NICE! Why not help her? Use wetnotes or a slate to communicate for a min. Instead of making a no-big-deal thing into a paniced new diver who lost her group?

Once again you have missed the point. I was unaware that the boat crew had told her to follow me around until after I was back on the boat. As a paying customer am I expected to take care of every diver from the boat?

1) You were aware she was following you..maybe you should have taken a min to find out why....maybe she thought you were her buddy...divers tend to look the same to a newbie. Maybe she was confused, thinking you were her buddy, and now there is ANOTHER lost, buddiless diver out there.

2) Expected to take care of every diver? YES! Divers help divers. It is one of the great things about this sport, it is even the reason this board is here. If a diver needs help, other divers help. She was alone, and following you. By "losing her" you were putting her in a position to need help.

Shame on you.

 

[Sideband]

He said he and his buddy were taking pictures. It is not uncommon for people to follow the guys with the cameras to try to get the same shots they got. To turn the boat crews screw-up and the other solo divers mistake into an error on the side of the only 2 people that weren't let in on the secret is wrong. The solo diver should have at least introduced herself even if she thought the crew explained what was going on to the other two divers. Then there is the whole dive plan thing. How did she expect to be part of the plan if she doesn't even say hello?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

WOW, how sad. As a new diver I can tell you, since you don't obviously don't remember, the biggest fear is losing site of your buddy or your group. It's a big, scary ocean out there...especialy on a boat dive. So you TRIED to lose her. NICE! Why not help her? Use wetnotes or a slate to communicate for a min. Instead of making a no-big-deal thing into a paniced new diver who lost her group?

As a new diver, then, it is VITAL that you understand this aspect of diving ... that unless someone else knows that he is your buddy, he IS NOT your buddy. You don't just swim up to someone during a dive and decide to dive with them.

If you didn't learn that in your Open Water class, then your instructor failed to teach you one of the most basic concepts in diving ... "Plan your dive and dive your plan". If the person you're trying to swim with wasn't involved in your plan, you never had a dive buddy.

1) You were aware she was following you..maybe you should have taken a min to find out why....maybe she thought you were her buddy...divers tend to look the same to a newbie. Maybe she was confused, thinking you were her buddy, and now there is ANOTHER lost, buddiless diver out there.

Without communication, there are only assumptions ... and assumptions can get you killed underwater.

How would you have found out why she was following you? Would you give her an OK sign? What if she just gave you an OK back? What would you do then? How would you ask her where her buddy is? BTW - there is a signal for that. Do you know it? Would you expect her to? What if she didn't recognize the signal? Would you then surface and end your dive?

Keep one thing in mind ... DM's and other dive professional do, in fact, play by a different set of rules. By accepting this person into your care, as a dive professional you have just accepted a larger liability than a non-professional diver would. Personally, I would not accept that liability without some prior discussion. It has nothing but down sides for me.

2) Expected to take care of every diver? YES! Divers help divers. It is one of the great things about this sport, it is even the reason this board is here. If a diver needs help, other divers help. She was alone, and following you. By "losing her" you were putting her in a position to need help.

Did she need help? Did she ask for help? Did she communicate anything at all?

You're making a lot of assumptions here ...

Shame on you.

No ... shame on the dive boat crew for putting one of their customers in this predicament. Shame on the diver for being so poorly trained that she didn't even understand the most fundamental concept of diving ... that you're supposed to be involved in planning any dive you intend to do. That starts with letting the people you plan to dive with know that you plan to dive with them.

If you fail to comprehend the notion that you don't just jump in the water, pick out someone to dive with, and follow them around ... then shame on you ... you're too poorly trained to be diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)