What pony size?

[Glenn08]

Disclaimer: I skimmed through this thread and haven't read all of the posts.
How far away should your buddy be ? If more than an arm's length away, are you buddies, or just diving in the same ocean ?
Is your buddy your first back-up, or do you have another option ?
Rather than a pony, I prefer twin 50's with a Selpak manifold; two first stages, and individual second stages. My first back-up is the alternate regulator, with my full tank capacity. The 'octopus' for my buddy is the alternate, while I keep the primary.
If I dive a single 72, I carry a 13 ft pony.
The bottom line is that YOU have to decide what YOU consider adequate equipment.

 

[uncfnp]

I'm new around here but I do find these pony bottle threads interesting. A couple questions

Why is that in all the consumption calculations it is assumed that it takes a minute or two to figure out you're in deep poop? I would think it would take about 2 seconds and one breath off your redundant air source to figure out you're in trouble.

Is everyone that dives with a redundant air source, diving solo? Don't you really just need enough air to get to your buddy which might be at most 25' to 50' away and hopefully will be a little closer than that?

I guess I am just envisioning diving a 100' wreck with a buddy. For whatever reason, I take a breath and nothing happens. I think to myself "OH %$#@!!!". I reach down unclip my reg from my XX size pony bottle and take a breath. Immediately look around for my buddy and start swimming towards them while trying to get their attention and giving them the out of air signal. Within 30 - 60 seconds I am with my buddy. I grab his/her SPG and see how they are doing on air. Look for the ascent line and depending on how much air my buddy has we either immediately start ascending together or make our way to the line. At some point I would switch to using their octo. Maybe while we are doing our safety stop, we can try figure out what happened to my reg.

Other than the part of using the redundant air source, isn't that what every diver is trained to do and isn't that why we dive with a buddy? (solo/self-reliant diving is another topic) So even a 6 cuft bottle at 100' would give me a full minute to get me to my buddy.

Just my 2 cents and this might help someone in choosing a redundant air source/size SGR SPECIAL REPORT: Redundant Air Systems

Isn't the whole point of a pony bottle to be self reliant?

 

[rhwestfall]

At some point I would switch to using their octo.

The pony is in my arsenal because a couple divers huffing on a stage in 34 degree water gives me the willies......

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Thats why I use a .58 (BP, but "big medicine"...:cool2

FWIW - Never needed it (my pony), and never finished a dive with under 300 psi in the tank (and the 99% line you draw would likely be 700 psi). I don't think a 30 is a big tank at all....... a 40 gets a bit large for my preferences...

See, I told ya so (on the gun). Happens every time.

Same here, never needed the pony and like you I don't even play it close on my primary. Either case happens, I need to reconsider my recreational activities.

 

[H20Flyer]

Isn't the whole point of a pony bottle to be self reliant?

It certainly can be if that is the point but since this was being discussed in the Advanced Forum and not the Solo Divers forum or any of the Technical Diving Specialties forums, so I thought it was directed at advanced recreational divers. Wouldn't it make sense if you were not planning to dive with a buddy (solo/self-reliant diving) to post this in a section where you would receive answers pertinent to that style diving?

 

[uncfnp]

It certainly can be if that is the point but since this was being discussed in the Advanced Forum and not the Solo Divers forum or any of the Technical Diving Specialties forums, so I thought it was directed at advanced recreational divers. Wouldn't it make sense if you were not planning to dive with a buddy (solo/self-reliant diving) to post this in a section where you would receive answers pertinent to that style diving?

My point is that one does not have to be solo diving to be self reliant and yes it is an appropriate question for an advanced forum.

 

[diverrex]

I think it is an appropriate thread for the advanced forum and it will so happen that some of the posters will be solo divers with their point of view. Just because there also happens to be a solo forum I don't think that precludes solo divers from posting in the advanced forum. I mostly dive with a buddy, occasionally I will dive solo. I don't consider myself a solo diver even though I will make some solo dives. I very rarely look at the solo forum.

Even though I usually dive with a buddy I like to be as self reliant as possible. I will carry a pony on deeper dives or on rare occasions that I will be diving with an insta buddy. I also photograph and dive with other photographers. We don't make the best buddies for each other as we get wrapped up in our own world of taking photos. But at least we realize that and dive accordingly. One of my photog buddies also carries a pony. We of course would help each other if needed but both of us are prepared to resolve things on our own if needed. I have never needed or come close to needing my pony.

I used to carry a 13 but realized that was on the edge of an appropriate amount of gas and if not completely full may become too little. I now carry a 19 and am not concerned if the pressure is a little less than full. I used to carry it strapped to my tank with the valve open. After a recent solo dive where it leaked almost empty without me being able to see either the valve or gauge I have decided to sling it with the valve closed and the valve and gauge where I can easily see them. It would not surprise me if I switched to a 30 or 40 some day at least for certain dives.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think you are on a bit of a slippery slope. Following this logic, one might also assume that after doing a few (or several) hundred decompression dives and never getting bent, you might begin to view those long deco stops as a pain in the ass and soon you are shaving minutes off your planned deco stops.

People probably do, do that. However, I don't think I remember skipping any required deco, unless I knew it was associated with a messed up computer or something. People that do several hundred deco dives probably also do extra deco when they 'feel" like they pushed it, or get a little tingle in the shoulder or a little numbness here or there. So, I'm sure they probably also shave a little off here and there for various reasons when they feel like it.

---------- Post added August 16th, 2013 at 05:58 PM ----------

A 40 clipped on my left is neither heavy or cumbersome. After several hundred dives without drama? Um, I've seen your videos.

No doubt that a 40 has some safety advantages over a 13 bottle. It also has some negatives too. If you are trying to climb up a ladder in very rough seas, or you are trying to navigate a 3 kt current, or make your way through surf or scramble over rocks when the waves are crashing, the negatives might begin to be important considerations to weigh. You might actually be safer with a smaller, more streamlined configuration. Do you dive in those kinds of environments, or in a lake with the big pony bottle?

 

[mopardiver]

I am just being 100% honest here, and I hope you don’t consider this trolling.

Years ago before I ever joined this forum I searched this exact topic…and it actually made me not want to join this forum after reading the responses to every pony bottle question ever posted on this site. I’ve slung them, and 40s aren’t difficult to carry in my opinion if you’re not spearing or bugging. But I honestly would like to know if anybody has ever done an analysis of the cost (in SAC rate) of lugging these oversize bailout bottles on a wreck dive with a ripping current.

I’m not saying they don’t add value as far as safety, but you aren’t supposed to tap into it for extending bottom time since we are talking bailout bottles, and there has to be a cost in bottom time from drag…right?

I also feel that there are plenty of people on this forum who love to jump in on every pony bottle question with over-analyzed (.0001% of it ever happening) emergency scenarios, and they love to apply SAC rate and bottle capacity calculations to justify the need for a monster pony bottle on even a reasonably shallow reef dive.

 

[flots am]

I also feel that there are plenty of people on this forum who love to jump in on every pony bottle question with over-analyzed (.0001% of it ever happening) emergency scenarios, and they love to apply SAC rate and bottle capacity calculations to justify the need for a monster pony bottle on even a reasonably shallow reef dive.

It really depends on wheter you think you might need it, what your other options are and how risky you think they are.

I used to think it was too much drag, etc., and didn't carry it, until I kept started running into "edge cases" where a pony would have been a huge help. None was really frequent, but there were enough of them that I decided to carry one on any dive where a free ascent would make me even a little uncomfortable.

Wheter or not you think it's worth the bother and the drag is really your call.

When a big tank was 60 CuFt and a deep dive might be 60', and everybody was diving tables, "go up" was pretty safe at any time. With computers routinely letting people ride to the edge of the no-deco zone over an entire dive and people doing deeper, longer dives, "blow and go" becomes less attractive.

It's supposed to be safe, but I'd rather not find out.

flots.