What would you do ??

[SeaHound]

Too funny! Im just curious what cultural background this guy was from? The reason is ... English is not my first language. When I first came to Canada I was always thinking up daily conversations in my native language and then translating everything into English. Unfortunately there is no single word for "PLEASE" in my native language. So "Could you please pass me the butter" would be "Pass me the butter!" Now after acquiring a certain proficiency in English I understand what an absolute jackass I would sound! But back then I was learning the language and that was all I could do I am very greateful that my Canadian friends understood that I was not an A-hole just someone learning the language. They helped me a lot.

The point is ... languages have an unwritten and an unspoken context mutually understood by the speaker and the listener. A lot of meaning can be lost and a lot is added when you are from a different culture trying to metally translate everything.

I am thinking that could be the reason for his attitude. It is quite understandable why you are upset though.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I would have suggested that we take a "mulligan." Exit the water completely, discuss how/when we will don fins, identify any equipment issues by practicing fin donning/doffing on dry land, practice it a couple of times, and then try the entry again.

At the particular dive site in question, is it common practice to don fins on shore and back into the water? This is not my preferred method of shore entry. I prefer to get past the surf break and then don the fins in chest-high water. If surf makes this method impossible or very difficult, perhaps the choice of dive site should be reconsidered.

In the past I have had buddies that required help getting a fin or two on. I have no problems lending a hand when necessary. Often times when in the surf, we don't have the luxury of asking politely for help. There can also be equipment issues which make fin-donning difficult. An ill-fitting drysuit or one that doesn't have enough gas added can severely restrict the flexibility needed to put on fins. If the diver doesn't test the fit of his drysuit boots in the fin foot pockets prior to getting in the water, he can be in for an unpleasant surprise since rockboots can be too wide for most "regular"-sized foot pockets. All of these issues can and should be sorted out on dry land before attempting a shore entry.

 

[coldwaterdufus]

Seahound, I know what you are saying. I could understand the problem if English was not his first language. This guy's English was perfect when he was asking questions about the dive plan with the DM. That was not the problem.

Bubbletrubble, We were shore diving a small inland lake, no surf, no waves that day, nothing. Sometimes I walk in with fins on, mostly I carry the fins and put them on in chest deep water. Like you, I find this to be the easiest. Practising with this guy how to put on fins would have been an issue had I suggested it. He was supposedly the experienced guy.

 

[JohnB47]

Since there was no surf, it should have been easy enough for the guy to put his fins on in chest deep water. If there had been too much surf for that, he should have put his fins on before entering the water, in which case it would have made sense to ask to lean on your shoulder. I can see asking for help with a rear zipper on a wetsuit or drysuit, but a diver ought to be able to put his own fins on! Did he ask you to tie his shoes after the dive, too? hehehe

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I put his fins on, but if it ever happens again, I don't think I'd do it again. I'd suggest he stand in the water and use my shoulder while they put their own fins on, ( in the water or out ) I really don't think it's my job to put their fins on, especially the way it was done and the demand style. Also, if everybody's in the water and someone's struggling, again I don't mind helping as long as they have at least tried to do it themselves.

@coldwaterdufus: I think the quote above is a very reasonable approach. My dive buddies and I will help newer divers do this if they are having issues donning fins. One person will provide a shoulder to steady the diver while the fins are put in place.

I generally don't get pissed off if someone needs a little help getting his fins on. Not a big deal in my book. I might get pissed if a person who says he's "experienced" needs or asks me to tow him through the surf and to the drop site. That's unreasonable IMO.

The fogged up mask is a minor inconvenience. With such benign conditions, why did you even have your mask on during entry in the first place? I'll routinely enter with mask off in moderate surf. It's fun to duck the waves. Typically, I leave the mask around my neck until I get out to the drop site. The only time I'll put it on during the kick out is if I can see anything underwater...the usual 10 ft vis gives little incentive to do so.

 

[Downing]

I think I would have said nothing, helped him with his fins and finished the dive.

On the way home, I'd do two notes to self:

1. No more diving with that guy--there's just no excuse for his rude behavior; and

2. Next time, do a better job of discussing the dive plan, including entry and exit, with an "insta" buddy."

 

[coldwaterdufus]

Bubbletrubble, when I first got my dry suit, I only had wet gloves . Then, I would enter the water without my mask on. Worked fine. Since I now have dry gloves, I put on my mask, then my gloves just before I enter the water. Keeps the gloves dry also. Remember, no surf, just a gentle walk in. I tried putting on my mask with the dry gloves on in the water, but found it hard to get my mask under the edge of my hood. It's hard to feel with your fingers with the dry gloves on. That's why mask, then gloves, then water.

Downing: #1 is already done and I never said anything to him, biting my tongue the whole time. #2 I'm learning fast but I would add that in my limited experience, discussing the dive plan, entry and exit never entailed asking the more experienced diver " can you get your fins on by yourself ". That just never occurred to me.

 

[Puffer Fish]

OK, picture this. Cold water, shore diving, I'm geared up, dry suit, tanks, mask on, the whole 9 yards. Walking backwards into the water, I look over to my " insta " buddy ( met him 3 minutes before that ). He is laying on his back in about 2 ft of water, looks up at me and says, ( doesn't ask ) SAYS, " put my fins on ". He has those crappy fin buckles, I have no idea why everybody doesn't buy springs for their fins. ( springs are one of the best inventions around ) Anyway, he can't hold his leg up, so I have to hold his leg up in one hand and put his fins on with the other. By the time I'm done , my mask is fogged up and I'm verging on sweating. Doesn't say thanks or anything. I was so ticked off....

I put his fins on, but if it ever happens again, I don't think I'd do it again. I'd suggest he stand in the water and use my shoulder while they put their own fins on, ( in the water or out ) I really don't think it's my job to put their fins on, especially the way it was done and the demand style. Also, if everybody's in the water and someone's struggling, again I don't mind helping as long as they have at least tried to do it themselves.

Am I being a dork ? I think this guy just pissed me off with his style ( or lack of it ).

If it was that hard for you to do, imagine how hard it would have been for him.

I just got back from a dive trip where my insta buddy needed help getting his fins off on ever dive...I did not mind at all. Even after 15 dives together. I found out after 10 or so it was due to a military injury that restricted his flexibility.

You have the choice to look at helping someone as being human or being a bother.. your choice...but in that ticked you off, I can only imagine how many other things upset you.

Note: Bet you don't actually know why he had those fins.. or why he needed help...what you "know" is that you did not want to be bothered.

Regarding him thanking you... well if you helped only because you were expecting a thanks...then you should not have done it.

At the end of the week, the dive shop gave me 20% off all my dives to thank me for being so nice to dive with...so once, every so often, karma balances out.

 

[RJP]

OK, picture this. Cold water, shore diving, I'm geared up, dry suit, tanks, mask on, the whole 9 yards. Walking backwards into the water, I look over to my " insta " buddy ( met him 3 minutes before that ). He is laying on his back in about 2 ft of water, looks up at me and says, ( doesn't ask ) SAYS, " put my fins on ". He has those crappy fin buckles, I have no idea why everybody doesn't buy springs for their fins. ( springs are one of the best inventions around ) Anyway, he can't hold his leg up, so I have to hold his leg up in one hand and put his fins on with the other. By the time I'm done , my mask is fogged up and I'm verging on sweating. Doesn't say thanks or anything. I was so ticked off....

I put his fins on, but if it ever happens again, I don't think I'd do it again. I'd suggest he stand in the water and use my shoulder while they put their own fins on, ( in the water or out ) I really don't think it's my job to put their fins on, especially the way it was done and the demand style. Also, if everybody's in the water and someone's struggling, again I don't mind helping as long as they have at least tried to do it themselves.

Am I being a dork ? I think this guy just pissed me off with his style ( or lack of it ).

Sorry to hear you had to deal with a guy who had an instabuddy with similarly inappropriate expectations and equally poor communication skills.

:cool2:

 

[vladimir]

Wow, everybody in this thread is a lot nicer than me. I would have said, "You must be #%@&! kidding me!" and continued the dive--solo.