When does diving become "ridiculous"?

[Stoo]

Like many others, I have been watching this thread on the recent fatalities at Eagles Nest. I have done a lot of diving over the years, but this particular dive is so far beyond what I do, I simply can't even comprehend what goes into the planning and execution of a dive like that. Beyond that, I don't really understand the point of undertaking such a risky venture, when there is no benefit to it, other than to make a cool entry in a log book. There is nothing new being learned as it's not "exploration". EN has been thoroughly dived and "mostly" mapped and so this dive, as monumental as it was, really served no point. In return, two guys (who are likely friends of friends, although I don't know them personally) are dead under horrific circumstances. Numerous rescue/recovery divers risked their lives to recover their bodies and equipment and a few weeks from now, this will all be forgotten. I don't want to come across as being critical of these divers or this specific dive, but use it as an example.

I should add that I "get" the appeal of cave diving. Two of my oldest friends are well-known figures in the cave diving world and if I name-dropped, you would know them too. Many of my friends are tourist cave divers, making a trip or two a year to Florida or Mexico. While I prefer pretty fish and sunshine, I understand the appeal of spending an hour or two moving though Mother Earth as one of my friends would say.

What I don't understand is why someone would choose to undertake a dive that has zero room for error. By all accounts, these two divers were well-trained and experienced, and properly equipped. They didn't do anything especially "wrong" it seems, but non the less, they are dead. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. I lost a friend in the caves a few years ago, his death being the result of a careless moment and a bad attitude, but that's a whole other conversation.

So why do some of "us" choose to do this kind of diving? It seems selfish to me. Friends are hurt, Families are destroyed. Kids are made orphans. Spouses are left wondering why "we" put diving ahead of them...

I understand that any of us can die driving to work, or slipping in the shower. I've logged well over 5000 dives, mostly what I would describe as "techreational"... deeper recreational dives that require deco. These dives have consequences if I mess up, but the risk is manageable, and even if I mess up a little, there's a pretty good chance that I can muddle my way through and make it home in time for dinner.

I doubt that I am alone in my wondering. I presume there is an adrenaline factor in all of this. Or just the satisfaction of a "good plan, well executed". Maybe the pleasure only comes from knowing there is significant risk and zero room for error. Like BASE jumping. Jumping out of a plane isn't buzz enough, so jump off a cliff in a wingsuit and see how close you can come to the rocks/trees/building/antenna. Good fun until you "auger in" and end up like a bug on a windshield.

I don't get it. Maybe I'm just getting old.

 

[grf88]

Getting older does tend to come with an increased sense of our own mortality.

 

[tbone1004]

I don't do these types of dives for similar reasons, but one thing that is extraordinarily rare in cave diving is for anyone to do it because of adrenaline. I don't know of any adrenaline junkies that have gone through that much training in cave diving because instructors will usually weed them out. I don't know these divers, so can't comment on whether or not they were adrenaline junkies, but for all of the cave divers that I do know, when adrenaline starts pumping, something has gone wrong and you have to do everything in your power to calm down, slow down, and get it to stop in order to ensure a safe exit.

EN is a stunning cave and very few caves, if any are fully mapped and explored. This dive may have not had the intention of being exploration, but there is still passage in the Nest that hasn't been explored. They may have been prepping to try to find these leads, or they were just trying to enjoy a beautiful cave that isn't dove very often.

In my mind, EN is far less "ridiculous" than doing dives like the Andrea Doria, which in my opinion is truly stupid and far more dangerous.

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

If I am not mistaken, Eagle's Nest has not been thoroughly mapped. I believe exploratory line is still being laid there, with the diver(s) clocking up 13 hour run times as a result.

 

[Stoo]

If I am not mistaken, Eagle's Nest has not been thoroughly mapped. I believe exploratory line is still being laid there, with the diver(s) clocking up 13 hour run times as a result.

My mistake... edited original post!

 

[Skeptic14]

I can understand cave diving; it's not for me (maybe cavern one day) but I understand it. I think it would be pretty spectacular to drop through the chimney at EN and see the ballroom.

For me personally, I'd say beyond slight deco the dives would start being "ridiculous". If I'm doing 30-45 min bottom time looking at fishies or a wreck and then 1-2 hrs hovering in open water off gassing... meh... not for me.

 

[RainPilot]

Just finished reading "Fatally Flawed" which deals with those going for records. I don't believe it applies to the EN incident except tangentially.

I do believe a LOT of tech diving is done for the personal challenge, for the feeling of pushing yourself to your limits and finding new ones. This is separate from an "adrenaline junkie" type person.

I suspect the closest parallel would be those few climbers every year or 3 who die trying to summit Everest. They will never have their name in a record book, they are not explorers per se, its been done often. BUT, for people like that there will always be a higher mountain, a more challenging peak to pit themselves against. Diving a cave like EN is probably the epitome of the art and science of diving all together and I fully understand that there will always be those pushing themselves to overcome the challenge and their own fears / limits.

Unfortunately, when you push limits sometimes they push back and so as long as there are those who are driven to face those challenges there will be those who sacrifice everything in the quest. RIP guys.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wondered the same thing about technical diving in general after the following two day dive sequence:

Day 1: Recreational dive to the Captain Dan wreck near Pompano Beach in Florida, with a maximum depth of around 100 feet. Very nice wreck with lots to explore. Total bottom time on nitrox of about 30 minutes. Total ascent time of about 5 minutes, including safety stop. Cost of dive about $65 for boat fees and $12 for gas. This was followed by a second dive on the reef, with no additional boat fees and the additional cost of about $12 for gas.
Day 2: Technical dive to the Lowrance wreck near Pompano Beach in Florida, with a maximum depth of around 200 feet. Very nice wreck with lots to explore. Total bottom time on trimix of about 30 minutes. Total ascent time of about 50 minutes, including numerous decompression stops, the last ones long and stupefyingly boring. Cost of dive about $85 for boat fees and $160 for gas (wild estimate from memory--it could have been more). There was no second dive.​

Applying strict logic to the situation, you would assume that anyone doing the day 2 dive when an option like the Day 1 dive was available has to be an imbecile. The boat was full of such imbeciles.

I wrote an article on this a while ago in which I attributed this sort of a decision to a psychological trait first identified in 1938: Achievement Motivation. Some people are simply driven to be among the best at what they do, to strive continually to be well above the average. To be among the best, they have to continue to grow and push the limits of whatever activity they pursue. This often involves pushing the envelope in terms of danger, and people seeing this will mistakenly assume there is an adrenaline rush involved. That is not it. It is the pure joy of doing something you know is extremely difficult, something that took you years of study, effort, and training to be able to do, something the average person will not even be able to understand.

 

[Jack Hammer]

To each his own...

Just because some people don't understand what drives others doesn't discount what those others do or why.

 

[iamrushman]

agree.........thanks for sharing.