Why Are Wing Comfort Harnesses Frowned Upon?

[Lorenzoid]

So what your telling me is to attend a course I'd need to go rent/buy inferior Ali tanks and train in a config I don't normally dive with.

You may not have to "rent/buy." If you sought out a GUE instructor who teaches Fundies in a place where thin wetsuits are the most appropriate exposure protection, it's possible the instructor might graciously lend students Al tanks for the course. GUE people are like that, I have found.

 

[decompression]

Okay get all that about caves and where it all came from. Fully understand No arguments.

So although I'll use GUE as an example, I have no axe to grind. Ive just read a lot about them as I have an interest.

So I turn up for fundies at a normal location. Drysuit, (or thick neoprene) a DIR compliant rig of a wing and plate with steel tank (I presume you provide your own tanks?) All good, add weight and dive adjust as necessary.

The same course here in the Middle East. Exposure suit is a skin (in my case a lavacore suit) so no buoyancy, Wing Ali plate and steel tank. No additional weights but still we start off overweight. How does the system (and standards) overcome that? How does the instructor get you to the correct buoyancy?

It's been answered but, more specifically, students are taught equipment selection and how it affects all aspects of the dive, including bouyancy throughout the dive.

Your assumption of supplying your own tank, in this case steel, isn't common. Regardless, if the tank is significantly negative and adversely affects bouyancy, an alternative is found.
Use the appropriate equipment for the dive.
There is a UTD instructor in Dubai, Daryl Owens (expat) I'm sure he'd love to have a beer at the Burj and talk DIR.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I never said steel tanks are mandated for anything. I don't know why you keep accusing me of complaining about the standards. Am I not allowed to question?

As it happens Steel is the most prevalent tank in our region few owners bother with Ali I happen to own 10 steels and the only Ali would be 30 or 40 CF. So what your telling me is to attend a course I'd need to go rent/buy inferior Ali tanks and train in a config I don't normally dive with. Genuis

No ... what I'm telling you is that it's obvious from your posts that DIR is the wrong approach for you. You reinforce that observation with every subsequent post. So why obsess over what they teach? Just dive in a way that makes you happy and don't waste your time questioning how someone else chooses to dive.

There's nothing wrong with that observation. I came to the same conclusion myself after taking a class. It's not for everyone. Nor is it the only "correct" way to dive. Relax and enjoy diving in a way that makes you happy. And let the folks who choose to follow the DIR path do the same. Everyone wins that way ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

FYI I opted in at one point because I had a question to ask but never bothered. I happen to enjoy browsing the technical forums because there are some topics which have interesting points from which I gain good information - rather than those on topics covering types of diving I don't participate in.

The fact that I am made to defend myself because a title imposed upon me rather than one of choice attracts such negativity by that community is a sad state of affairs.

I am not a member of the DIR community. Nor am I trying to be negative or make you defend yourself. I just don't understand why it's important to you ... you clearly have already decided you'd rather dive a different way. Do so ... be happy. That's why we dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[eelnoraa]

So they've created a brand and will stick with it exclusively regardless of potential improvements, right?

< offtopic >
BTW, Iphones can run android. Plenty of howtos and youtube videos of people who so desire doing just that. There's nothing truly special about android/ios or the hardware that runs them, that's just marketing gobbly gook. Also, I think playboy no longer includes photos of female models. They're banking on the "I only get it for the articles" crowd, I guess.< /offtopic >

So as there are DIR/GUE/UTD trained divers who don't use bp/w. But I think you get the point of my analogy

Instead of saying "Potential improvement", it is actually a trade off as most of everything else. An improvement in your opinion may not be one for others. It is all about priority and preference. What I am trying to say is that individuals(people, school, organizations ... ) make choices, other should respect their choice. If you don't like it, don't do it. No one is forcing anyone in this part of the world.

 

[eelnoraa]

Okay get all that about caves and where it all came from. Fully understand No arguments.

So although I'll use GUE as an example, I have no axe to grind. Ive just read a lot about them as I have an interest.

So I turn up for fundies at a normal location. Drysuit, (or thick neoprene) a DIR compliant rig of a wing and plate with steel tank (I presume you provide your own tanks?) All good, add weight and dive adjust as necessary.

The same course here in the Middle East. Exposure suit is a skin (in my case a lavacore suit) so no buoyancy, Wing Ali plate and steel tank. No additional weights but still we start off overweight. How does the system (and standards) overcome that? How does the instructor get you to the correct buoyancy?

One of the big concept taught in GUE class is balanced rig. If your case, per GUE course standard, it is not the right rig for the environment. I think your instructor is the best person to answer the "how to fix it" question. But let me throw in my 2 cents based on my limited experience in GUE training: 1) use an AL80. and/or maybe 2)put on more suit. 2) may sound ridiculous at this point, but keep in mind, you spend a lot of time, hours, in open water without moving much. It is not unusual to see people in drysuit even in tropical water.

 

[Compressor]

For what its worth: When I took my Fundies course, I was told to dive with AL 80s ( I normally dive with Steel LP85s). I dove with a wetsuit as well. Water was 65 degrees; we spent a great deal of time in the water. The instructor was cognizant of the fact that 2 divers out of 3 were wearing wetsuits so dives were not "unusually" prolonged. When taking the course, I think its wise to listen to the instructor. Presumably one have done their homework on the skills of the instructor and did not sign up with one not qualified. So invest in time and energy in the instructor during the course. GUE instructors are highly qualified and motivated to teach good technique. The concept of a balanced rig is VERY important. IMO, without it, trim and buoyancy suffers and then everything else falls apart as well.

I've been a NAUI instructor for 15 years so I am not necessarily biased for GUE instructors. BTW: I did not pass my Fundies. That's another story.

 

[Ayisha]

I've been a NAUI instructor for 15 years so I am not necessarily biased for GUE instructors. BTW: I did not pass my Fundies. That's another story.

Yet. You can always try again?

Diving Dubai said: "As it happens Steel is the most prevalent tank in our region few owners bother with Ali I happen to own 10 steels and the only Ali would be 30 or 40 CF. So what your telling me is to attend a course I'd need to go rent/buy inferior Ali tanks and train in a config I don't normally dive with. Genuis"

To the OP: I did my Fundies in a wetsuit and HP steel tank. I prefer a shorter tank rather than a longer AL tank due to my petite stature. It wasn't an issue in my course. One of my teammates also used a HP steel 80 with a drysuit while the other teammate used an AL 80 with a wetsuit. As long as the configuration is balanced, works for you and your team and you're able to accomplish everything consistently, it's all good.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

yeah butt he is not using a wetsuit...!!!!! You seem to be missing some of the most important principals of their system. He has a steel plate as well...

 

[Ayisha]

He has an AL plate