why did GUE , DIR take so long to adopt sidemount.

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The argument that there's no "need" for sidemount in open water is silly. There's no "need" for any kind of diving ... nobody ever needs to enter a cave on scuba gear ... nobody ever "needs" to dive at all. We dive for one reason only ... because we want to. Choice of equipment boils down to the same reason. We choose what we choose because it's what we want to use ... and we usually base those choices on reasons that seem valid to us at the time we make them. And nobody needs to justify those reasons to anyone other than themselves. The gear should be capable of meeting the needs of the dive (i.e. carry adequate gas, have a suitable method to get the gas from the cylinder(s) to the diver, provide redundancy when appropriate, fit properly, be as entanglement-free as possible, and suitably mitigate whatever risks and conditions the diver anticipates). Other than that, it boils down to what floats your boat.

I don't get the whole "cool new thing" argument either. Sidemount isn't hardly a "new thing" ... and most folks I know currently using it for open water applications are beyond the point in life where "cool" means anything. Most I've met, in fact, are using it specifically because the configuration provides them the ability to overcome some physical limitations that stem from aging, and the wear-and-tear that life take on our bodies as we get older. There's much to be said for the ability to put on your tanks in the water, or to be able to reach your valves. The latter is the reason I switched ... I got to the point where managing valves on a manifold was just more difficult and time-consuming than it should be, and if you can't manipulate valves on a manifolded set of doubles you have no business taking them into the water. So if you want to do dives that require two tanks, sidemount becomes a better option. This applies regardless of whether or not you're diving in an overhead. Sidemount is also an attractive option for solo diving, due to the type of redundancy it offers. And besides that, it just feels more natural to me than diving with tanks on my back.

But none of that has anything to do with GUE or DIR. And I'm not sure the premise of the thread does either. Just because Halcyon makes a sidemount rig doesn't mean that GUE is suddenly embracing sidemount. AFAIK, they've embraced it for years ... but only in a limited way and for specific sets of circumstances. I don't see that's changed, or likely to. The Halcyon rig isn't any more "DIR" than the Nomad or SMS or any number of other sidemount offerings out there. Don't get me wrong, the Contour is a nice rig, and very robust ... but it's not "DIR". And depending on the circumstances, it may not even be the best choice for the GUE diver who's decided that sidemount is called for.

Sidemount ... like every other choice in equipment ... has benefits and drawbacks. And those must be considered before deciding that sidemount is right for a given dive ... or more specifically, a suitable choice for a given diver. On a boat it involves some extra steps that may make entry and exit more difficult, might take more time, might introduce uncertainty into how the boat crew should assist or respond, and may require some configuration compromises if you're renting tanks. Are you prepared to deal with those? What about your dive buddies, the other people on the boat, or the crew? Have you factored how it affects them into your preparation for the dive? Are you prepared to deal with compromises that enable you to dive sidemount in a situation where the boat may not be set up for it? What about shore diving? It generally requires multiple trips between where you're setting up and where you're entering the water ... and the same in reverse after the dive. Are you prepared to do that? Do conditions allow it? Conditions like bad vis or surf entries might make the problems introduced by sidemount greater than the solutions it offers. Not that these problems are insurmountable ... but they may require some advance planning, additional preparation, or some changes to the routine you're used to following. And they put additional pressure on buddies who may now have to assist you or wait in poor conditions while you clip in your tanks and connect your hoses.

To my knowledge, the only "DIR-compliant" sidemount rig is the UTD offering ... and even that one introduces weaknesses and potential failure points unique to the rig in an attempt to adhere to DIR's rigid protocols. Like all the others, it has benefits and drawbacks that must be considered before deciding it's an appropriate choice.

In the long run, if you're "doing it right" that means you're considering the benefits and limitations of your gear, determining if they meet the needs of the dive, thinking about how your gear choice affects not just you but your team, and considering how your gear choice will help you mitigate potential risks and failures that you may encounter during your dive. You should be doing those things regardless of whether you're choosing sidemount, backmount, or rebreather. Being married to specific protocols simply because some agency says that's how you should dive only introduces limitations that may or may not benefit you or your dive buddies, and it reduces the opportunities for what might turn out to be better choices. And I don't think GUE has ever advocated that a diver do that.

God gave us a brain for a reason. Rather than being concerned about whether or not it's "compliant" or "cool", it's better to concern yourself with why it's "appropriate" ... and if that boils down to simply "because that's how I like to dive", that's a good enough reason so long as you've considered the alternatives, benefits, and drawbacks in your decision.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
. Has there ever been an incident were somebody got hurt because they were diving SM? .

Yes there has been. People don't understand they are really learning sidemount gear configuration, not the advanced level of diving that encompasses sidemount. People have put on sidemount configured equipment, and unknowingly/knowingly enter situations where they got in trouble because the gear allowed them to be there,but there was no training to back up the situation. Last incident was someone entering a restriction that involved gear removal and floated away from their tanks,because they didn't know to weight the diver, not depend on the tanks for weight.
 
Yes there has been. People don't understand they are really learning sidemount gear configuration, not the advanced level of diving that encompasses sidemount. People have put on sidemount configured equipment, and unknowingly/knowingly enter situations where they got in trouble because the gear allowed them to be there,but there was no training to back up the situation. Last incident was someone entering a restriction that involved gear removal and floated away from their tanks,because they didn't know to weight the diver, not depend on the tanks for weight.

... that happens with backmount gear too, yanno ... especially in cold water environments with people wearing drysuits and using weight-integrated BCDs ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I have been in dozens of discussions/arguments about the merits or lack thereof with sidemount and, so far, no one has given me any rational reason why it is inappropriate for open water. I keep hearing how it is the wrong tool for the job but no one has advanced a single argument that can convince me that there is any inherent disadvantage or safety issue with diving in a sidemount configuration in open water.
 
I can verify that not a single one of my open water sidemount students has ever tried to pass a restriction. Kidney stone maybe....

There is a world of difference between sidemount "the configuration" and cave sidemount.



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---------- Post added December 23rd, 2015 at 05:41 PM ----------

Yes there has been. People don't understand they are really learning sidemount gear configuration, not the advanced level of diving that encompasses sidemount. People have put on sidemount configured equipment, and unknowingly/knowingly enter situations where they got in trouble because the gear allowed them to be there,but there was no training to back up the situation. Last incident was someone entering a restriction that involved gear removal and floated away from their tanks,because they didn't know to weight the diver, not depend on the tanks for weight.

And that's either poor training or a Darwin Award.


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I have been in dozens of discussions/arguments about the merits or lack thereof with sidemount and, so far, no one has given me any rational reason why it is inappropriate for open water. I keep hearing how it is the wrong tool for the job but no one has advanced a single argument that can convince me that there is any inherent disadvantage or safety issue with diving in a sidemount configuration in open water.

Perhaps some of us (I'm DIRF, Tech1 and Cave2 with GUE with over a 800 "DIR" dives, and now a 90-100hr TDI CCR diver btw) don't really care how you dive. Arguing with someone on the internet who is obviously not interested in being a well rounded diver with a large toolbox to choose from is a waste of our time.

---------- Post added December 23rd, 2015 at 11:01 PM ----------

And that's either poor training or a Darwin Award.

Kelly is in North FL. Darwin may have been English but the award was invented in North FL caves. (and creates a world of heartache for cave access)
 
Kelly is in North FL. Darwin may have been English but the award was invented in North FL caves. (and creates a world of heartache for cave access)

There are plenty of documented accidents with backmount divers taking their gear off and killing themselves in the process.
I remember one not so long ago incident where a diver got into a passage that was too low in backmount. He ended up no-mounting and pushing his gear through and got separated from it in the process and drowned.
That was clearly not "the right tool for the job" as the exact same passage is used in basic sidemount cave training and perfectly safe, that is without tanks on the back.

As to the reasoning of it all, I tend to agree with dhboner. There are very few unbiased arguments , if any, against a migration to sidemount even for OW diving.
Boat diving may one of them, depending on the boat and the weather maybe.
On the other hand there are many solid arguments that could be made in favor of sidemount, like not needing a team of two buddies to diagnose and fix equipment failures.
 
There is a world of difference between sidemount "the configuration" and cave sidemount.

There is a huge difference. Unfortunately there are quite a few that don't understand that. How many times I read on forums,"I got my sidemount gear, and this has opened up a lot of new opportunities to me." What they don't realize is those new opportunities require specialized training to handle the situations when things go wrong. This is one of the reasons I try to do terminology correction, so people understand there is a difference between learning sidemount configuration, and sidemounting.
 
Perhaps some of us (I'm DIRF, Tech1 and Cave2 with GUE with over a 800 "DIR" dives, and now a 90-100hr TDI CCR diver btw) don't really care how you dive. Arguing with someone on the internet who is obviously not interested in being a well rounded diver with a large toolbox to choose from is a waste of our time.

---------- Post added December 23rd, 2015 at 11:01 PM ----------



I hope I misunderstood your post since I have been diving since 1971 and have thousands of dives in backmount, still dive in backmount from time time and do a fair amount of mixed team dives. I consider myself a well-rounded diver with a decent toolbox. I like diving in a sidemount configuration for a variety of reasons and have yet to hear a well-crafted argument why backmount is "better" in an open-water environment. (I haven't updated my profile dive count for quite a while, if ever).
 

Kelly is in North FL. Darwin may have been English but the award was invented in North FL caves. (and creates a world of heartache for cave access)

I understand Kelly's point, but it speaks more to a lack of proper attitude about risk mitigation than it does the choice of side-mount vs back-mount. Living where he does, I'm certain he sees way more back-mounted divers doing stupid things in caves than he does side-mounters ... particularly those who chronically enter caves with no overhead training at all (often on single, back-mounted cylinders) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
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