Why do Advanced Open Water?

[EvaL]

My take is it depends on what kind of diver you are. If you are knowledgable about diving and read up a lot on diving physiology, safety, dive techniques etc, maybe you don't need to, except when the dive op requires it (e.g., deeper wreck dives - but sometimes they let you dive if you show recent equivalent dives in your logbook).
Also are you a diver who pushes way past the limits (like trying to set a record or something) when going deeper, at night, diving in challenging environments oroverhead environments (cavern/wreck)? If you are, then perhaps classes are recommended, in my opinion, for your safety and your buddy's. I always recommend that new divers shoud aim to do up to Rescue, so they can prevent accidents before they occur (not just saving others).
I recall basic CMAS divers were trained in Rescue, and under the old BSAC system, those who can dive on their own (without divecon) had to be better trained than PADI OW standards. All things being equal, I'd prefer having better trained divers in the water.
Dive safely.

 

[Thalassamania]

Your motives are dark, and not as altruistic as it seems on the surface.

Luke, I am your father!

No, look ... I think it's great for folks to get as much training as they can. And when all they can get is the crapola that's dished out, well ... that's the way it is. But I hate to see people ripped off. Most new divers' time would be much better spent downloading the Navy manual and reading it than taking any second course out there.

As far as anti-PADI is concerned, no ... a plague on almost all their houses. LA County is the only one I can still really respect.

 

[fisherdvm]

Luke, I am your father!

No, look ... I think it's great for folks to get as much training as they can. And when all they can get is the crapola that's dished out, well ... that's the way it is. But I hate to see people ripped off. Most new divers' time would be much better spent downloading the Navy manual and reading it than taking any second course out there.

As far as anti-PADI is concerned, no ... a plague on almost all their houses. LA County is the only one I can still really respect.

The free market will take care of it... It is a free country. I spent a total of $120 for both of my OW and AOW classes - reg and BC included.. Beat that price, and I will sign up for your NAUI class too... I didn't get ripped off.

 

[loosebits]

The free market will take care of it... It is a free country. I spent a total of $120 for both of my OW and AOW classes - reg and BC included.. Beat that price, and I will sign up for your NAUI class too... I didn't get ripped off.

Did you get what you paid for?

 

[Thalassamania]

It is just saying, that when all of us got together for a night dive, I was the only one with 2 lights and a glow stick, the other two guys were going to share the same light. I am just doing a comparason between 3 divers finishing OW at the same time, but one learned a little more about night diver than the other 2. All 3 of us were medical doctors - and safety conscious.

And these guys went through a class? They did not learn anything about lights?

You are being a hippocrit in saying that PADI set low standard on their OW, but when someone try to suggest including additional training through AOW, you are suggesting that "experience" through doing 100 dives is better than a course content. I believe this is strictly because you do not like the PADI brand. As it contradict all your other posts concerning the need for higher standards, and how NAUI is so much better.

I line ONE NAUI course, One. Yes I despise PADI, and rightly so considering the damage that they done. But I feel the same way about most of the other agencies too.

I clearly understand the issue here. You are so anti PADI that you let your prejudice get into the way of a diver's desire to gain additional training. Without the content of PADI AOW, I would have minimal understanding of nitrogen narcosis, safety of night dive, and introduction to navigation and boat diving.... These were, and still are, invaluable in my skills as a diver... Not as a PADI diver.

What I’m against is turning students out of an entry level course without knowledge of those subjects.

You are confirming your prejudice, and hypocrisy.... Their entry level course sucked.... confirm what you have been preaching all along.... PADI has inadequate standard, and their minimal standard is too low..

But when someone suggest that a new diver take a course to complement the inadequate PADI course, you chose to shoot it down.

That’s a bandaid not a solution. We need to get the critical items back into the entry level courses not pander the public taste for immediate gratification.

The free market will take care of it... It is a free country. I spent a total of $120 for both of my OW and AOW classes - reg and BC included.. Beat that price, and I will sign up for your NAUI class too... I didn't get ripped off.

It's a free county, did you take your course on base, subsidized by the taxpayer?

 

[fisherdvm]

It's a free county, did you take your course on base, subsidized by the taxpayer?

Yes, and no... The dive shop was on the Marine base. The instructions were also on post. So the rent is probably nil.

The instructor is a Navy soldier... What we paid, is what he got... Subsidized by the tax payer?? Probably no more than the electricity that lit the lamp on the post... The dive shop was privately owned, but they loan the gears to us for free - hoping that we'll buy gears from them later.

I happen to like my instructor ... He encouraged all of us to continue and finish AOW. He was truly concerned about our well being.. and not just pushing an agenda.

 

[fisherdvm]

And these guys went through a class? They did not learn anything about lights?

Based on the standard taught by PADI OW, they should not be doing a night dive. I did not know that they have not done AOW.. They were my classmates from medical school.

 

[Thalassamania]

Yes, and no... The dive shop was on the Marine base. The instructions were also on post. So the rent is probably nil.

The instructor is a Navy soldier... What we paid, is what he got... Subsidized by the tax payer?? Probably no more than the electricity that lit the lamp on the post...

and that ran the compressor and the air conditioner and provided security patrols and fire protection, ad infinitum. Taxpayers picked up that bill, you got a deal! But I think that's OK, poorly paid as our service personnel are, if they're lucky enough to pull a billet in a place like Oahu I'm glad that there's affordable diving opportunities for them. However, considering what we have invested in them I'd much rather see them receive training that discusses things like backup flashlights. I'd hate to loose a doc that cost us several million dollars out in the ocean late at night because his or her course didn't cover such contingencies.

 

[fisherdvm]

Did you get what you paid for?

Yes, an open mind. I am getting sick of these anti PADI bashing. The divers I respect the most are those who mind their own business and lead divers to whatever path that make them the safest divers possible.

PADI or not...

Bashing PADI will not make a different, if your choice of instruction is not available in a geographic area of the country. Telling divers to do more dives because you don't want them to take PADI AOW is not in their best interest.

You know it, but will not admit it.

 

[GA Under Water]

I am falling completely in love with that "Just Go Dive" slogan around here.


I had a buddy from work charge me $15 a Class. Did I take Adventure? you betcha, AOW, got it more specialties?? HA HA HA DANG straight.

I can already read it, I didn't get taught correctly because it was a buddy. Work Buddy, means I have seen him around work.