Why do we bash each other?

[Doc Harry]

I think a lot of the above is true. I see people write in a manner that they'd NEVER speak to a person face to face!

I also believe that there's the cloak of invincibility that a lot of people have with their diving skills or perceived knowledge. Quite unlike me, I highly doubt that anyone knows how to do everything precisely right! Bwhahahhaahahahahaaahahhaha!

Seriously, it's not just the dive forums, it's all forums. Civility is dead, sirs and madams. By golly, we had a congressman say **** on the house floor last month. What's the world coming to?

Agree 100%

It's not just Scubaboard, it's just about every internet talk board that I've ever seen.

I think people here are rather polite compared to what I've read elsewhere. You should try Deco Stop if you want some eye-opening debates! I've seen various other non-scuba boards where every other post is "F-U" and "No, F-U" and "No, U-F" it goes on for pages and pages.

 

[DaleC]

I think anonimity has a lot to do with it. In the Western Canada section, for example, we rarely (if ever) have a dust up and for the most part are uber helpful because the odds are we will see each other in the parking lot later that week. SB has been great for us this last year as we have really come together as a community that way.

I also think people get a little cocky when they get too comfortable with their clic. Sort of like the guy who gets mouthy when all his buddies are standing behind him. Usually those same loud mouths change their tune when the crowd isn't around or someone stands up to them. I swim in many different ponds so the whole "us vs them" thing doesn't appeal to me (or garner my respect).

Oddly enough, I don't have a problem with the DIR section here, which I would think I would with my diving style. It probably has to do with the way I approach things though. I ask questions and even challenge points sometimes (for clarification) but I don't feel the need to bend DIR to my way of thinking. I try to put that sentiment across in my posts and generally get pretty reasonable responses. I have to say I've learned a lot in that sub forum.

I can also say that the Vintage sub forum has some of the nicest, most helpful posters around (even if they can get a little testy on the finer points of vintage). They all know my heart is in the right place though so they don't give me a hard time. Definately a bonus here on SB.

One group I have gotten into some dust ups with though is the "dive professional/dive industry" type. Some times the "you can only dive new gear, sold by an LDS with the proscribed training because I know better than you as I do this for a living" mantra gets a little old. I tend to rebut some of those opinions pretty strongly as (a.) I think they can be wrong and (b.) they dismiss a whole segment of the dive community that doesn't follow the modern "buy your spoon fed pablum adventure" mindset.

Anyways, that's just me. I like the fact that Pete allows everybody to have their voice here and doesn't interject or skew the conversation one way or the other (except in terms of the TOS). I think the best service we can do to diving is to give everybody all the options and let them make their own decisions.

 

[AndrewA]

I joined Scubaboard earlier this year and have found it to be much friendlier than many others I visit. Perhaps because of this I find that I am posting much more frequently here than on other boards.

 

[budgy]

Scuba board forum is always polite and friendly, lots of highly experienced keen divers, diving in different styles and conditions that are often unknown to us. So many hints and tips and such a quick reponse its often information overload. A little bit of passion and heated debate at times drives away our complacency and makes me think are my methods and preferences stupid prejudices or is there rational in my apparant madness. We are all looking for better ways and we share our experiences. I might disagree with you on one thread and find myself enlightened or amused by your observations on another. At times we are somewhat like the group of blind men that examined an elephant and cant agree. Some times the things we say upset people, yet we still disagree argue and squabble most with the people closest to us, our family. On Scottish forums, we know each other and we get death threats.

 

[The Chairman]

This might be my favorite thread for the year. I have thanked a number of you for being forthright and even more for their positive take on the matter and ScubaBoard. It's important as a community that we set standards of civility and ask others to abide by them. I have even placed a link in the Mod Squad and have asked all of ScubaBoard Staff to read and heed the messages contained here. It's good stuff!

However, let's also be sure what this thread is NOT about: allowing only homogeneous ideas and opinions. No, we don't want to stifle discussion, even sharp discussion among colleagues and friends. ScubaBoard exists because of our diversity of opinions and methodologies and not in spite of them. It's an amazing testament to divers that we can have Solo Divers and DIR Divers in the same community. We have both an environmental as well as a hunting forum. Many of these forums have a "No Trolling" sign posted on them to keep them civil, but they are all equally important. Remember this:

Just because someone disagrees with you, DOES NOT MEAN that they are bashing you.
​

I hope this is clear to everyone. We don't want to eliminate controversy: just the unneeded friction that arises when someone refuses to convert to your line of thinking. We don't want to become irrelevant, but we surely don't want to become elitist either. It's a balance that is worth maintaining.

 

[Walter]

Just because someone disagrees with you, DOES NOT MEAN that they are bashing you.
​

Excellent point, Pete!

 

[Hank49]

Of the few forums I frequent, Scubaboard is the most civil, closely followed by MyLesPaul guitar forum.
Spearboard is a bit more testosterone loaded and gets like a bar fight at times.
But regardless of the overall tone of a board, in my experience these are fantastic learning tools. Want a new piece of gear and opinions? A place to go? What guitar strings work best on a Strat? Unreal amount of information.

 

[fairybasslet]

It's the internet. The written word is far more difficult to decipher than the spoken word, and without seeing facial expressions or hearing voice inflections, it is very easy to think someone is jacking you up, when they aren't, or mean a mild jab. Worse, most of these folks know that no one will ever see them in the real world, therefore, there is no need for social etiquette.

What is more scary, wait until you meet some of these folks in the real world. I am convinced that part of the collapse of American society comes from the ceaseless chatter on the internet, and my observations that folks no longer feel the need to be civil to each other. I find myself saying things on chat boards that I would never say in real life, and that that attitude slops over into real life, too. I am at Christmas with my mom for the first time in 30 years. She was surprised at the eloquence that I showed when meeting strangers. I guess that means that I act like a butthole when I am around folks familiar to me. Guess I need to look at that.

Merry Christmas....

Frank

Capt. Frank, I think you sell yourself short. I have always found you to be well-spoken and diplomatic on message boards and in person. But maybe I'm just one of those "strangers"? Anyway, my son is very polite to my friends but treats me like crap so you're not unique in that respect. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you and Mel.
Ellen

 

[fairybasslet]

... which was really rather the point of creating the Pub, as I recall ... to keep most of the miscreants out of the significant conversations.

But we don't have pissing contests ... we beat each other over the head with whiskey bottles ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Geeze. I post a Christmas photo there and someone comments that I don't have a long hose. That's pretty funny.

 

[Jax]

Hola! I have read the pages of this thread, and see that a few people have hit the nail on the head - anonymity and de-individualization - is the issue at hand. I just wish I were at home where I have access to my Master's papers; I could cite you many references.

But really, is there a need to continue the bias? When we dehumanize one person, we dehumanize everyone.
Fortunately, the forum has evolved along with its denizens and I see a lot more effort made to be reasonable.

First, the bias will continue until there is a means to mark every move on the Internet with its author. De-huminization is an alternate term for the de-individualization that is a psychological phenomena of the Internet.

I post under my nick name, but do not hide who I am! I do think you should be willing to say it to some ones face if your going to say it!

Forgitaboutit! This isn't about "ought to" and "should" or about manners or bad writing skills. The ugliness by individuals is deliberate . . . non-deliberate hurtful statements will follow with an apology if the ugliness is pointed out.

However, let's also be sure what this thread is NOT about: allowing only homogeneous ideas and opinions.

Just because someone disagrees with you, DOES NOT MEAN that they are bashing you.
​

We don't want to eliminate controversy: just the unneeded friction that arises when someone refuses to convert to your line of thinking. We don't want to become irrelevant, but we surely don't want to become elitist either. It's a balance that is worth maintaining.

Let there be no doubt - the civility of this forum is directly attributable to the mods, and the personalities of the individuals that hit the "Report" button.

The anonymity of the Internet leads to de-individualization (de-humanization) of individuals. Individuals affected by this do not conciously turn into evil fiends; there is much arguement whether this is the 'real person' coming out or merely a 'shedding' of social norms due to the belief that one will 'never' be found out, combined with a lack of feedback of the individual's behavior.

In a face-to-face situation, if one snaps out a testy comment, there is feedback in the form of hurt silence, shocked looks, or comeback. In the Internet, there is nothing.

Add to the above the obvious problems with miscommmunication due to writing skills, English-as-a-second language, or even typing in an airport with the "wrong" glasses on, you have more opportunity for the now-non-inhibited individual to "say" what s/he wishes.

The mods, and the "Report" button, are what provides feedback to the individual and should be used immediately in trolling situations. I have been very impressed, however, by members of the forum that will 'step up' and say "That was mean!", and see the perp back off.

This is such an issue in industry that handling such people/incidences is a many-session seminar in Chief Information Courses. In industry, such behavior (emails, etc) is referred immediately to the supervisor. In this forum, well --Good job, mods!

. . . and Cave Diver disagrees because he is a Grinch! :blinking: