Why do we hate the Air2?

[DaleC]

Seeing as we're troubleshooting the failure points of the AIR 2 lets flip the tables and do another scenario.

We'll simply invoke the "Law of Primacy" and assume that a stressed diver will reflexively resort to what they have been taught first (in basic training). In this case, to look for an alternate air source within the "golden triangle".

Diver A is DIR configured, Diver B is the new diver.

Diver B begins to go OOA and looks around for some assistance and see's Diver A, who just happens to be the closest diver to them.

With stress mounting Diver B looks for an alternate air source in diver A's "golden triangle" and reaches for... the bungied B/U. Which is the closest to that location. They may wonder why Diver A keeps it so high or what kind of octo keeper that is but at the moment.. probably not. We always assume that a stressed diver will go for the primary but I think a stressed diver might just as well go for the first reg that appears to be available and accessable.

With stress continuing to build Diver B tries to pull the octo free but it seems resistant; however, fear soon overtakes weakness and Diver B rips the bungie free from the reg (perhaps along with the mouthpiece).

Diver B tries to breath from the B/U reg but finds they are dealing with a ridiculously short hose so they move to the side of Diver A's right shoulder in an attempt to bend the hose to reverse the reg and breath. Hopefully they still have a mouthpiece attached.

Now diver A has Diver B perched on their shoulder where Diver A cannot control Diver B's BC dump valves and Diver B begins to move towards the surface...

I'm 215lb's and fairly strong. In this scenario, if I'm Diver A I feel pretty secure in the notion that I could control Diver B (if Diver B were say... Lynne). But if Diver A is Lynne and Diver B is Dale, Diver A is in SOL.

Don't take my word for it. Strap the tank on and imagine what would happen if someone stronger than you were to mug you for your bungied B/U reg. Think of where they would move to in order to breath and what limitations that would place on your ability to control the situation.

So, unless one only dives with trained DIR divers, or weaker divers, or one can completely predict what a stressed diver will do in that situation, the DIR configuration comes with some pretty sub optimal elements attached to it as well.

 

[wrybosome]

.. It's spelled H y P o C r A c Y.

...or not

 

[Splitlip]

subcribed

 

[danvolker]

Seeing as we're troubleshooting the failure points of the AIR 2 lets flip the tables and do another scenario.

We'll simply invoke the "Law of Primacy" and assume that a stressed diver will reflexively resort to what they have been taught first (in basic training). In this case, to look for an alternate air source within the "golden triangle".

Diver A is DIR configured, Diver B is the new diver.

Diver B begins to go OOA and looks around for some assistance and see's Diver A, who just happens to be the closest diver to them.

With stress mounting Diver B looks for an alternate air source in diver A's "golden triangle" and reaches for... the bungied B/U. Which is the closest to that location. They may wonder why Diver A keeps it so high or what kind of octo keeper that is but at the moment.. probably not. We always assume that a stressed diver will go for the primary but I think a stressed diver might just as well go for the first reg that appears to be available and accessable.

With stress continuing to build Diver B tries to pull the octo free but it seems resistant; however, fear soon overtakes weakness and Diver B rips the bungie free from the reg (perhaps along with the mouthpiece).

Diver B tries to breath from the B/U reg but finds they are dealing with a ridiculously short hose so they move to the side of Diver A's right shoulder in an attempt to bend the hose to reverse the reg and breath. Hopefully they still have a mouthpiece attached.

Now diver A has Diver B perched on their shoulder where Diver A cannot control Diver B's BC dump valves and Diver B begins to move towards the surface...

I'm 215lb's and fairly strong. In this scenario, if I'm Diver A I feel pretty secure in the notion that I could control Diver B (if Diver B were say... Lynne). But if Diver A is Lynne and Diver B is Dale, Diver A is in SOL.

Don't take my word for it. Strap the tank on and imagine what would happen if someone stronger than you were to mug you for your bungied B/U reg. Think of where they would move to in order to breath and what limitations that would place on your ability to control the situation.

So, unless one only dives with trained DIR divers, or weaker divers, or one can completely predict what a stressed diver will do in that situation, the DIR configuration comes with some pretty sub optimal elements attached to it as well.

I hope this is a joke.
If the DIR diver has "any" training whatsover, if they are any kind of DIR diver at all, they will see the OOA diver on the way over, or before the OOA diver even begins to move, and the long hose will already be outstretched and shoved toward the mouth of the OOA diver...this IS how DIR divers dive....
Dale, apparently you have never dove with a DIR diver.

This is what the OOA diver would see the moment of indicating they were OOA to the DIR diver...

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I hope this is a joke.
If the DIR diver has "any" training whatsover, if they are any kind of DIR diver at all, they will see the OOA diver on the way over, or before the OOA diver even begins to move, and the long hose will already be outstretched and shoved toward the mouth of the OOA diver...this IS how DIR divers dive....
Dale, apparently you have never dove with a DIR diver.

This is what the OOA diver would see the moment of indicating they were OOA to the DIR diver...
View attachment 98811

Just take the damn thing and shut up.
Oh, and BTW, LEARN TO DIVE!!!

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

Dan,
Just to play the Devil's Advocate and not because I think there is anything wrong with the DIR system...

DaleC's senario states diver A is using a DIR config. This isn't the same as having completed DIR training and may be just what these debates on SB promote inadvertantly. After all many people may start configuring their gear according to what they read here about DIR without taking the time to continue their education. Thinking, after all isn't that the config that some of the best divers use? Well I beleive we have ( at least in this discussion ) turned to the thought that training and practice may be more important than gear selection. This doesn't invalidate DIR but suggests that even within that relm the equipment and the training go hand in hand. This principle of learning skills and training go back to our earliest experiences diving building skills one at a time in a sequence that readies us to dive. DIR is a great system when all the divers diving together are all equipped and trained alike but recreational divers don't have the luxury of that expectation and as such should be aware of the variety of configurations used today and how they effectively change the requirements for them or a buddy when used. Just because you see a diver in proper DIR configuration doesn't mean that they will react to a OOA situation as in your picture because they don't actually have the training to go with the kit they configured from pictures. They may or may not be well practiced with their gear. It could in fact be the first time they ever dove that configuration but they looked good getting in the water.

 

[DaleC]

Not a joke at all. Any diver believing they will always be aware of everything happening in their environment and always able to control the actions of others is bordering on something though...

Dan, I bet in the low vis conditions we experience locally, at a popular site like Whytecliff, Porteau, Edmonds or Keystone, I could sneak up and grab your B/U before you could do anything about it. I didn't say Divers A and B were buddies or that Diver A even knew Diver B was OOA. Someone's OOA, they see a reg, they swim up and grab it. Let's go from there. How does the configuration hold up?

Nice try but if you're going to allow being "all seeing and all knowing" to evade the failure points I've identified you have to ascribe them to the AIR 2 analysis too.

And hey, I don't have spell czech, I have to rely on my mammory.

 

[TSandM]

You know, honestly, if I'm in my usual diving position, which is gratifying often close to horizontal trim, it's going to be rather difficult for the OOA diver to figure out WHERE on earth I have my backup regulator -- it's not yellow, not on a yellow hose, and it's hiding under my chin. I don't think it would take long for someone to decide just to remove the one that's obvious . . .

 

[DevonDiver]

Seeing as we're troubleshooting the failure points of the AIR 2 lets flip the tables and do another scenario.

Discussing other AAS methods would take the debate firmly off-topic.

I've started a new thread; that can progress a reasoned comparison and contrast of AAS systems

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ad...arative-debate-aas-configuration-options.html

 

[DaleC]

We had a very unfortunate skydiving incident here some years ago that comes to mind.

A very experienced instructor was taking a novice tandem jumping and inadvertantly place his arms in front of the client. The client grabbed the instructors arms and froze. It was reported that the instructor was heard all the way down to the ground screaming for the client to let go of his arms so he could pull the chute (which he never did). The instructor was very experienced but had not anticipated the irrational reaction of the novice or that form of failure point in the tandem diving system he was using.

But of course, that sort of thing could never happen while diving.