Will Air Integration in dive computers replace the SPG?

[doctormike]

They have had considerable technological integration added in the form of Power assisted steering and ABS braking.

Yeah, but the actual thing that keeps you from crashing - pumping brake pressure lines or turning the steering mechanism - isn't fly by wire like on a commercial jet. It's still analog, and I don't think that's because we don't know how to put fly by wire in a car...

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

I think the "universal" notion is very interesting and, yes, essential for AI to ever replace the SPG in rec diving. Wookie, I am surprised at the number of failures you see, but, in fairness, a battery dying is not a "failure" of AI, but of the diver not being in control of their gear. Without naming brands, my wife and I dive the same computer. Transmitters are individually coded (in fact, I can see her air supply in a separate window, and she can see mine) and so have no interference with each other or from other transmitters. No interference from the several different strobes I use, nor from any DPV use. Reliability is 100% over about 200 dives (on each computer). No water intrusion like on a hose mounted AI, because the transmitter is securely seated on the first stage. The predictive gas usage algorithm signals ascent so as to get us to the surface with our pre-set reserve with very good accuracy, no matter the dive conditions. It is superior to the SPG in all respects.

So, most of the problems can be (and have been) solved, but it seems that different manufacturers are at different stages of progress.

The only gas monitoring failure I have experienced was when my wife's SPG was slowly getting stuck at higher pressure than what she actually had due to some internal corrosion-- a very insidious and dangerous failure mode. Having the AI alerted her to this and luckily we were at Blue Heron in 18 feet of water. So, an SPG requires caution as well.

And yet, and yet, and yet . . . . I am old school and still have an SPG which I check maybe once during the dive.

 

[chrisch]

... in fairness, a battery dying is not a "failure" of AI, but of the diver not being in control of their gear. ...

I am unfamiliar with every single AI computer on the market. What happens when the battery is low? If - for example - you are at the start of a week's diving with say 50 dives ahead of you and on a live aboard with no spare battery? How many dives from the battery warning (I assume there is one) to no tank contents? Can you change the battery yourself? On every single model?

I can (and do) carry a spare computer, but the spare AI would appear to be a mechanical SPG. So by defintion you must retain the mechanical SPG for ever as a back up to the AI......

 

[doctormike]

I guess it will come down to market forces and the pros and cons.

Pro: data logging (this is the main reason I would want it), and convenience (once you ditch the console, you can have all of your data on your wrist so you don't need to check an SPG).

Cons: battery dependent, and poor reliability. At least the ones that I had (Suunto) had terrible link reliability. I know that there are a lot of people who say that their WAI never fails, and that's fine, but that's a reporting thing. If you have 10 divers, and 2 of them have WAI failures, you will have 8 people swearing that WAI is bulletproof and never fails, based on their personal experience.

Maybe the reliability issue will get better with time, and maybe the cost isn't such an issue for many divers. But unlike things like email, texting, and online shopping, I just don't see such a HUGE increase in function with WAI that it will ever totally replace a cheap, robust, reliable solution like an SPG.

 

[Insta-Gator]

Negatives: cost and the point you made in post #7 about uniformity/familiarity.

I sold an AI computer and bought a simple brass-and-glass SPG because as I gained more experienced diving and listened to others who said I could dive without checking my gas so often, I was persuaded by the idea that simpler and more uniform is better than more complex and more diverse. Your logic that everything analog and/or mechanical in our lives is slowly being replaced by digital electronics seems sound to me, but if I could get rid of the electronics in, say, my car and have it work just as well for me, I would. I can hardly make a phone call anymore with my Android phone, the thing is so complex and does things I didn't intend it to do. Old-school mechanical stuff just feels comforting. For all I know, it's a fallacy that such things are more reliable than electronics.

Where's the sense in checking less often? Do you want OOA to be a surprise? Don't you watch your depth gauge and timer? Wouldn't it be convenient if you knew your remaining gas concurrently at knowing your depth and run time?

 

[tbone1004]

so before I lay out my answer, let's look at what needs to happen in order for AI to beat the SPG.

cost, you can buy an SPG with hose for under $100 vs the cheapest transmitters at $250
size-button gauges for deco bottles are super small and that is about the size a transmitter realistically needs to be in order to justify the change
reliability when dropping bottles-this I'm not 100% sure of with Suunto's new stuff, but syncing while underwater is 100% critical to making this work for tech divers since we drop stage and deco bottles and need it to work when we pick them back up.

If they can fix those things, then it will work. I.e. transmitters have to cost around $100 each, have easily user replaceable batteries because lets be real, you aren't going to plug your regulators into the wall to charge them each night, and they need to be small enough to be able to go straight down on the tanks so they don't get ripped off in sidemount and on stage bottles. Until that happens, they have no place in real tech diving. Suunto has support for 10 pods, so that's plenty, and the size is actually real close, but the cost is still $440/pod and that's more than you pay for a full regulator set...

 

[Wookie]

AI being universal can almost eliminate any incident of a diver dying because they are out of air.

How? Divers don't run out of air because they do or don't have AI, they run out of air because they don't plan their dives. They have to look at the gauge, regardless of type, to not run out of air.

---------- Post added January 12th, 2016 at 10:30 AM ----------

Wookie, I am surprised at the number of failures you see, but, in fairness, a battery dying is not a "failure" of AI, but of the diver not being in control of their gear.

If the battery fails in the transmitter, has the transmitter not failed? Does a battery fail and render the SPG unusable?

I had a battery fail in my Predator. I was in Grenada, the battery showed 50% before the dive, and failed about 20 minutes in. No big deal, abort the dive, work the tables, dive the rest of the day on tables. Turns out, I dove the rest of the week on tables, because big dummy didn't bring a spare battery, and 3.6v SAFTs aren't sitting in every dive shop in Grenada. Who knew?

Had I relied on AI, I would have been done diving for the week.

 

[AJ]

Where's the sense in checking less often? Do you want OOA to be a surprise? Don't you watch your depth gauge and timer? Wouldn't it be convenient if you knew your remaining gas concurrently at knowing your depth and run time?

You should know remaining air without having to check every second. Also you should know your depth and dive time at any given moment. What if your computer fails? Panic or just a minor nuissance? Never, ever rely on a piece of electronics for your safety.

 

[CuzzA]

I am unfamiliar with every single AI computer on the market. What happens when the battery is low? If - for example - you are at the start of a week's diving with say 50 dives ahead of you and on a live aboard with no spare battery? How many dives from the battery warning (I assume there is one) to no tank contents? Can you change the battery yourself? On every single model?

I can (and do) carry a spare computer, but the spare AI would appear to be a mechanical SPG. So by defintion you must retain the mechanical SPG for ever as a back up to the AI......

I can only speak on behalf of my computer, but the battery life of the transmitter is displayed on the computer screen. So far with about ~20 dives on my AI computer the original battery is almost full. This leads me to believe the transmitters don't consume a lot of power.

It would be a good idea to carry a spare battery. I do. If AI transmitters replaced SPG's then I would assume dive shops and liveaboards would carry spare transmitters and batteries just like they carry spare SPG's and other spare equipment.

How? Divers don't run out of air because they do or don't have AI, they run out of air because they don't plan their dives. They have to look at the gauge, regardless of type, to not run out of air.

My point is the SPG doesn't alarm the operator to the fact they don't have enough air to reach the surface. It is 100% up to the diver to make sure they are checking their gas. However, if they are using a AI computer the computer would alarm them to the fact they are approaching the point where they will not have enough air to complete the dive and reach the surface. I understand many would say this is a "gear solution to a skills problem", but not everyone is as good as us. "Generally" speaking I could see where the technology could save lives.

 

[kelemvor]

Not steering and brakes! Unless you commute by jet...

No, modern cars have fully electronic steering and brakes. Drive By Wire. It is similar to Fly By Wire that you are thinking of. It's already happened, you just didn't notice.

Some modern cars have self driving features. Tesla takes it a step further. The Tesla is fully automated, and they even now have a summon feature where you can have the car start up and drive to you with nobody inside at all.


I think the answer to the OP's question is yes, eventually. There are 35 different hoseless air integrated computer models for sale on Leisurepro (I just used them because they sell many brands). Many more than that if you're willing to accept hosed air integration. I'm sure that someday you'll see analog spg's only used on "vintage" rigs.