Work permits for non-Egyptian diving staff required for CDWS renewals

[Red Sea Shadow]

Hi Crowley,
Instructors able to communicate in several languages (especially the exotic ones) will fall under the 10% ratio.

Splitting CDWS card statistics will give us a clue about what's going to happen. Personally I don't think the industry will collapse if the non-Egyptian staff leaves but you guys think otherwise.

Yes some Egyptians are good because of experience not proper training but if the industry is going to have a bottleneck in April, I think this will change. Instructors will have to teach DM candidates properly. It won't be an option anymore.

 

[String]

Yes some Egyptians are good because of experience not proper training but if the industry is going to have a bottleneck in April, I think this will change. Instructors will have to teach DM candidates properly. It won't be an option anymore.

It'll just mean the substandard ones that just had qualifications signed up will get the work that previously nobody would employ them to do as they weren't good enough. And increase the numbers "just signed up" to stew the chronic shortage of staff that'll be an issue next easter.

We're still being quoted 4000LE for a permit. Given the average earnings for some people this year its a massive chunk. In 12 months work someone may have managed to save up 1000 euro or so. You'd instantly lose 40% of this on a permit so a years work for 600 euros?! Who would want to?

The only up side is that the instructors will get more money due to the lower numbers. Courses will now be 4,6 or 8 person instead of 1s and 2s. Its more of a headache and lower quality training though as a result along with less time off and so on.

Although they promised it wasn't the case anyone getting a CDWS card this month expecting it to expire Jan 31st like everyone elses found out it actually expires 31st October so any staff now already here the permit thing is an issue NOW not January.

Im undecided whether i can (i) afford to stay with that extra annual expense and (ii) whether i want to given the increased work loads, stricter schedules and less time off it will mean.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

It'll just mean the substandard ones that just had qualifications signed up will get the work that previously nobody would employ them to do as they weren't good enough. And increase the numbers "just signed up" to stew the chronic shortage of staff that'll be an issue next easter.

We're still being quoted 4000LE for a permit. Given the average earnings for some people this year its a massive chunk. In 12 months work someone may have managed to save up 1000 euro or so. You'd instantly lose 40% of this on a permit so a years work for 600 euros?! Who would want to?

The only up side is that the instructors will get more money due to the lower numbers. Courses will now be 4,6 or 8 person instead of 1s and 2s. Its more of a headache and lower quality training though as a result along with less time off and so on.

Although they promised it wasn't the case anyone getting a CDWS card this month expecting it to expire Jan 31st like everyone elses found out it actually expires 31st October so any staff now already here the permit thing is an issue NOW not January.

Im undecided whether i can (i) afford to stay with that extra annual expense and (ii) whether i want to given the increased work loads, stricter schedules and less time off it will mean.

I agree that the bottleneck is April 2010 and yes some just-signed-up will show but I believe on the mid term it will stabilize. And it's better to take this step now when business is low.

As an instructor, just survival and saving 600 Euro this year is not a bad thing. Actually some of the dive centers are out of business and some others are suffering. So it's not the best time to complain.

I don't know about CDWS card renewal this month! Is it just for non-Egyptians?

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Im undecided whether i can (i) afford to stay with that extra annual expense and (ii) whether i want to given the increased work loads, stricter schedules and less time off it will mean.

Are you thinking of leaving?!

 

[String]

I don't know about CDWS card renewal this month! Is it just for non-Egyptians?

No idea - most egyptians i know havent bothered even getting the CDWS (despite working) and half those failed the exam. All i know is that 2 weeks ago normal cards were issued with Jan 31 expiry and last week people that went came back with cards expiring October 31st instead. Best bet would be to phone them and ask about Egyptians. They still charged the full price for the card so we've had people paying 60LE for the card and 300LE for a taxi to sharm for a bit of plastic that expires in 4 weeks.

Are you thinking of leaving?!

Undecided yet. Its possible - another €600 a year might push me from survival into not being able to save enough money even for a flight home once a year and im not sure i like the idea of more rigid schedules and courses with 2-3x the number of people as now.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

No idea - most egyptians i know havent bothered even getting the CDWS (despite working) and half those failed the exam. All i know is that 2 weeks ago normal cards were issued with Jan 31 expiry and last week people that went came back with cards expiring October 31st instead. Best bet would be to phone them and ask about Egyptians. They still charged the full price for the card so we've had people paying 60LE for the card and 300LE for a taxi to sharm for a bit of plastic that expires in 4 weeks.

Which centers are the people who got the October 31st cards affiliated with? May be the couple of centers that are not yet fully "approved" by CDWS? They still run regular checks on those AFAIK.

 

[hg frogman]

As a freelancer myself, I may never work again in Egypt if this work permit stuff is enforced as announced.

But I think what Red Sea Shadow says makes a lot of sense, and I globally agree with him.

There are many Egyptian students who already speak English, German, French and/or Italian (or other languages), or who can learn them quickly, at least enough to work as DMs. And who can get their DM certification in a few weeks or months.

Yes I've seen quite a few bad Egyptian DMs (sorry Asser) but I've seen also good ones. If freelancers become mostly Egyptians, which will probably happen with this new regulation if it's enforced, their growing numbers and the competition between them are likely to enhance their professionnalism (it's already what happens with European freelancers, at least in the good dive centers). Anyway the clients will dive with whichever freelancers there are, Egyptians or not. Hard to tell if that might detract them from diving in Egypt. I don't think so.

The overall process seems to be Europeans being (more or less gradually) kicked out of Egypt as dive professionals - but can we blame the Egyptians for that ?

That's already the case in many countries where the dive guides are mostly locals.

Albeit this is pain in my a**, this is also the reality we're faced with as European dive professionals.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this work permit thing ends.

 

[String]

Which centers are the people who got the October 31st cards affiliated with? May be the couple of centers that are not yet fully "approved" by CDWS? They still run regular checks on those AFAIK.

Without naming names i can guarante they're full approved members of the CDWS an have been from the outset (and were getting the normal jan 31st cards before last week too!).

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

That's weird! And they didn't ask CDWS officials about the reason behind? It might be a typo since 01 (January) could be easily switched to 10 (October). And normally people mistype the year (at least I do ).

 

[String]

Its not a typo. They were asked and told its due to the Nov 1st permit rule coming in. The officials in CDWS office though are about as useful as a chocolate teapot when it comes to geting information.