Wreck Preservation..

[advtech]

Just to clarify. The Tiller Wreck is just outside the anchorage, but it is very close. There have been days when we couldn't dive it because a freighter had pivited around it's anchor with a wind change and it's ass end was right over the wreck. This was before we had the mooring buoy on it. If you swim a couple of hundred feet off the wreck you will see drag marks from anchors. It's a miracle that one hasn't landed on it.

All permenant moorings such as the ones we use must be reported to the Coast Guard so a Notice to Shipping can be issued. The Seaway dosn't want jugs or floating lines used when the mooring is off as freights will traverse the site going into the canal.

We might be showing the Shark Marine video on the wreck at the St. Catharines Public Libary Tuesday night. I'll confirm this and post again tomorrow.

 

[DiveMistress2]

Thanks for keeping us updated as per usual Ian.

I'm glad to see that Sparky & Steve are now able to kiss and make up...I mean hug and make out....I mean hug and make up. LOL.

You guys are a hoot. Who was it that said "Why can't we all just get along?"

 

[DiveMistress2]

I'd say a couple of things about this:

1) Look at it for what it is. It's junk. Garbage. Refuse. A pile of twisted useless metal. An object with no intrinsic value other than the value it has to act as shelter to fish. It's like coming across and old bit of mining equipment or a scrapped car in the mountains (happens regularly in BC). If someone sees the need to take part of that home and hang it on their wall then I don't see the problem. Personally I don't hang refuse on my walls but some people get a genuine kick out of it. More power to them if they can convince their spouses to do this, I say..

For those who do this they are not only breaking the law but ruining the experience of discovery for future divers. As much as I would love to have certain items from certain wrecks in my collection I respect the law and the wreck enough to leave it all behind. If fellow divers didn't maintain this attitude diving on it before me then it wouldn't have been there for me to see in the first place.

2) Some wrecks have a genuine archaeological value and they should just be left to the experts until the experts are done with it. ..

There are no exceptions - nothing should be touched/moved/removed ever.

3) Some wrecks have a lot of bodies on them. These wrecks (I believe) act as the only grave the family of the deceased have and removing part of such a wreck is like removing part of a grave-stone from a grave. Unethical. By the 2nd generation it should generally be opened up...

Again I disagree. There is a shipwreck in Kingston where bones of lay off the wreck. I heard a story a few summers ago recited by a charter operator that a diver unknowingly had brought up a femur bone to the surface not realizing what it was. Out of respect for the families should we not offer them some options - they may want the remains recovered or feel that the site is a living testimonial to what their loved ones were a part of. They should be involved at least.

4) A rare number of wrecks have a cultural value far exceeding the intrinsic value of the wreck and should be just left alone. I think some war wrecks and wrecks like the Titanic are examples of this. Displaying artifacts from these wrecks is like selling pieces of broken glass from the world trade centres..... It may connect people better to the past but you debase the cultural value of these objects and some cultural memories (objects) are (or should be) sacred.
R..

Finally, I'll agree with you. We have 2 wrecks in our back yard that are historical testimonials in themselves. The Hamilton and the Scourge. They sit at 300ft and although I know of a few qualified divers I would rather nobody visit the wrecks.

If people are already complaining that items are missing from local wrecks just think about the damage that could be done on these sites. It would be abominable.

I think that was a nicer & more politically correct response than you were expecting. I think we're all open to people's views, we are all entitled to our own opinions and will take everything with a grain of salt.

 

[Axeman]

ok well back about 100 posts ago someone mentioned comming to the Port Dover Museum....

It is a great place and I would encourage people to go and check it out. They have a cool display on early commercial diving as well as the atlantic display upstairs.

Entry is paid by donation... which I think is worthwhile as it is already great and can only get better.

They have some great wreck videos and posters, maps etc for sale as well.

If anyone is comming down to check out the museum let me know and I would love to meet some of you FWF..... Even though I have been living and visiting in Port Dover for 9 years I have yet to dive in Erie...... So this summer I hope to change that as I am already booked on a charter for June 26 and have access to my own boat this year.

Sorry I could not remain on topic by ranting and raving

Thanks

 

[Scuba_Steve]

I can see that your jerk of a boss is being lenient on you today Steve....I guess those people don't need their cars fixed after all....

Super excited as always to go to Kingston. The wrecks up there haven't changed much in the past 4 years and 10 charters later. I think this is my 11th time up there, and my 10th trip out with Big Jim.

I only hope that we can preserve our wrecks as well as they have.

I figured that I'd pick everyone up and we'd all go up together. I'll get directions from Obeeno/GoDown or Divesith for the St. James.

You'd better watch out for OTE.....you still have to make it up to him since the legendary comments were dropped hahaha.

He'll get his revenge on you yet You mean Leanne isn't interested? I saw her snuggling up to him at Teazer's house last week.....LOL.

I explained the whole body groping incident and I only wish I had the camera on that night dive to add it to the OCAR pile. I am quite the collector of OCAR photo's now. One of these days I'll read them off the memory card and post you with two right hands!

Good to go for the St James then. We can finalize all that "team stuff" we've been giving lip service to. I assumed you mean the 3 of us are going together (DR).

As far as my lovely wife and OTE is concerned, I can tell you she's a one man woman, and when you find that man, tell him I said "hi".

Please forward all photos for touch-up and deletion to me.

I'm sure with the equipment loaning, and now with my new shiny MIG welder OTE will be not requiring much in the way of "making up" on my part.

Earlier this week I did my first bit of MIG in probably 10 years. hehehe, you should have seen the first weld, until I got it dialed in. LMAO. It took all of 2-3 inches to reach a proper weld.

I can't wait to practice on OTE's stuff. No warranty there pal!

Steve

 

[Diver0001]

First of all, thanks for responding. I was hoping that we could get some discussion going about this.

For those who do this they are not only breaking the law but ruining the experience of discovery for future divers. As much as I would love to have certain items from certain wrecks in my collection I respect the law and the wreck enough to leave it all behind. If fellow divers didn't maintain this attitude diving on it before me then it wouldn't have been there for me to see in the first place.

That's true about the laws in Canada but not in other parts of the world. Where I live now we can take stuff off of (most) wrecks. And people do. In large quantities. At first my mouth fell open and I became chastising and aggravated about it but when the roars of laughter and comments about typical North Americans stopped I started to realise that there is more than one way of looking at it. Much of the wreck diving done around here has an element of souvenir hunting. As I said before I don't personally participate but I *have* come to accept it.

Assuming the laws in Canada didn't prohibit it then we still have an disagreement in principle. I would address one part of what you said by saying a few things:

- that a wreck evolves. It evolves in some cases by literally falling apart; in some cases by getting covered with sand ; in some cases by getting absorbed into the environment ; in some cases by changes in the life you see on the wreck and in some cases by having bits removed. Around the North Sea wrecks evolve by way of dredgers that use cables to cut the wreck off at a certain depth or by stamping it down to clear water ways for shipping traffic. IN British Columbia I've made maybe 50 dives on a particular wreck over the course of 20 years and it looks nothing at all like it did 20 years ago..... and it's in a protected area and hasn't been abused by divers. I would submit that the divers who visit this wreck today are not missing anything. They are seeing what there is to see. A moment in time captured. Just as it was 20 years ago. Just as it is today. Just as it will be in 20 years time. I would suggest that the Buddhists are right. The only constant is change and in impermanence of life is something we all need to accept.

- 2nd point I'd like to make is that to really appreciate a wreck for what it is, you should make a dive 1/2 km away from it on part of the bottom with no features. This isn't a cynical suggestion. I'm seriously suggesting making a dive at some distance from your favorite wreck to let it sink in what it is that you really look at when you dive on a wreck..... I would suggest that a wreck isn't something to be seen in isolation from the life it attracts.....

- and finally I would say that a wreck will always be there to see. I know of two 17 century wrecks (wooden freight vessels) that I visit once or twice a year with a select few divers and even after almost 300 years in the water it's still interesting. In Turkey last year I saw wreckage from Roman times and although the form isn't recognisible anymore the impression it made was very real......I also dive with some regularity on the North Sea on a wreck that's been there for more than 100 years and despite being subjected to an intensive picking-over ít is still a highly interesting divesite. Not pristine but as I said just now, pristine is an illusion.

There are no exceptions - nothing should be touched/moved/removed ever.

I understand where you're coming from but I hope I've established that the desire for it not to change is an illusion. Whether from the hand of man or the hand of God it will change. I guarantee it.

Again I disagree. There is a shipwreck in Kingston where bones of lay off the wreck. I heard a story a few summers ago recited by a charter operator that a diver unknowingly had brought up a femur bone to the surface not realizing what it was. Out of respect for the families should we not offer them some options - they may want the remains recovered or feel that the site is a living testimonial to what their loved ones were a part of. They should be involved at least.

Ok. We agree about that. Maybe I was going to tight through the corner (as the Dutch would say). I believe the families should be involved in the decision of when a wreck is opened up for diving. Again, in Europe (at least where I live) you do see a different attitude. Land is expensive and when you bury your dead here you "rent" the grave for a period of time and when the rent is no longer paid then the body is dug up, burned and disposed of, making room for the next. For a North American this is perhaps an unthinkable thing to do but in Europe this is normal. I would suggest that a similar attitude about wrecks is possible. When family members no longer object to diving a wreck it should be opened. Years ago I took part in an archaeological dig south of Vancouver (I'm not an archaeologist but my roommate at the time was). We found three bodies (all about 350 years old) in the back yard of a man who didn't know they were there. The local Indian band was contacted and they didn't know who they belonged to..... and they became ..... artifacts. It's natural to assume that you wouldn't forget where people are buried but think about it. I know where my grandfather is buried but not his mother...... Respect for the emotions of those who still have fresh memories is appropriate. But making it into a taboo is going over board.

Finally, I'll agree with you. We have 2 wrecks in our back yard that are historical testimonials in themselves. The Hamilton and the Scourge. They sit at 300ft and although I know of a few qualified divers I would rather nobody visit the wrecks.

If people are already complaining that items are missing from local wrecks just think about the damage that could be done on these sites. It would be abominable.

Nothing to discuss here.

I think that was a nicer & more politically correct response than you were expecting. I think we're all open to people's views, we are all entitled to our own opinions and will take everything with a grain of salt.

Not at all.

R..

 

[d33ps1x]

I am surprised D33 hasn't jumped in here with a S.A. comment

Oops sorry. I was out diving all week and I fell asleep about 2 pages back in the early going of this most amusing catfight.

Back to bed. Diving tomorrow again and then I do believe on Sunday I am booked to consume a pig a la spit de open fire with one of the three Dans clan.

Might even get in a bath and a shave if I can offgas long enough to have one safely. What are you up too D.M?

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Having fun in Brockville D33, I think they'll be out of touch until Sunday PM. You truly are a diving junkie. I am impressed.

Betcha don't have kids and stuff to tie you down, do you?. Yeah, but that's just jealousy talking now

Of course, the week after next is the usual 10, 12 and 2 I think hehehehe

Have fun this weekend.

Steve

 

[Over The Edge]

Hello D33psix,

We've been busy prepping the 60lb anchor for droppage on a certain keyboard.

We've got it hooked on the back of the truck and we're dragging it behind us making our way down the 401. We thought this was safer than dragging through the lake behind the boat

We would have joined you at the pig a la spit but some of us weren't welcome.

Instead we were forced to lounge around the St. Lawrence, spending time jet skiing, eating good food and enjoying the sun. It was rough.

Good to see you could finally pull yourself out of the bathtub. Hope you didn't forget your drysuit this weekend!

 

[sparky30]

Hello D33psix,

We've been busy prepping the 60lb anchor for droppage on a certain keyboard.

We've got it hooked on the back of the truck and we're dragging it behind us making our way down the 401. We thought this was safer than dragging through the lake behind the boat

Make sure you clean all the sand and mud off.. I hate a gritty keyboard...
And please clean of all sharp edges resulting from the road rash.. I don't want you to cut yourself when you drop it A bloody keyboard is even worse than a gritty one..

P.S. Bring spare anchors, I have multiple computers.